{"id":1152,"date":"2011-02-23T23:41:21","date_gmt":"2011-02-23T22:41:21","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/eltchat.com\/?p=1152"},"modified":"2011-02-23T23:41:21","modified_gmt":"2011-02-23T22:41:21","slug":"how-do-you-deal-with-fossilized-errors-and-help-students-improve-their-accuracy-eltchat-transcript-23022011","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/2011\/02\/23\/how-do-you-deal-with-fossilized-errors-and-help-students-improve-their-accuracy-eltchat-transcript-23022011\/","title":{"rendered":"How do you deal with fossilized errors and help students improve their accuracy? #ELTchat Transcript 23\/02\/2011"},"content":{"rendered":"

This is the transcript of the first #ELTchat on dealing with fossilized errors on 23\/02\/2011<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n
11:59 am<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nWelcome to #ELTChat<\/a> everyone! I’m co-moderating with @barbsaka<\/a> tonight, hope you’ll join us to chat about ‘fossilized errors’<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
11:59 am<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @juanalejandro82<\/a>: I only say to my followers: I’m sorry, it’s Wednesday and it’s time for #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:00 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nAnd I’m here with @englishraven<\/a> Happy to get started with tonight’s chat #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:00 pm<\/a><\/td>\nAlexandraKouk<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n… and we have lift-off! #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:01 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: Welcome to #ELTChat<\/a> everyone! I’m co-moderating with @barbsaka<\/a> tonight, hope you’ll join us to chat about ‘fossilized errors’<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:01 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nSo what is everyone’s understanding of a ‘fossilized error’? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:01 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nShall we start by asking what fossilized errors are? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:01 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nFor the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to #eltchat<\/a> – How do we deal with fossilized errors?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:01 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nAnd I forgot the hashtag \ud83d\ude42 but Jason asked the same question so all good #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:02 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI would say that it is really a mistake rather than an error – stds know it’s wrong but keep making it #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:02 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nHi all and moderators @englishraven<\/a> @barbsaka<\/a> We have lift off! Great!! #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:02 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: I would say that it is really a mistake rather than an error – stds know it’s wrong but keep making it #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:02 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: I would say that it is really a mistake rather than an error – stds know it’s wrong but keep making it #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:02 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nfossilized error is when the error is a force of habit, perhaps? Students don’t know they are making a mistake anymore. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:03 pm<\/a><\/td>\nLUZBEGO<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: Welcome to #ELTChat<\/a> everyone! I’m co-moderating with @barbsaka<\/a> tonight, hope you’ll join us to chat about ‘fossilized errors’<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:03 pm<\/a><\/td>\nLUZBEGO<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: So what is everyone’s understanding of a ‘fossilized error’? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:03 pm<\/a><\/td>\nTwitConfessor<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @juanalejandro82<\/a>:#ELTChat<\/a> fossilized errors… I must confess I had to read what it washttp:\/\/twlv.net\/30pJkD<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:03 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> To me, a fossilized error is a problem with pronunciation, grammar, vocab which SS learnt wrong & now needs 2 change #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:03 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nFor the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to #eltchat<\/a> – How do we deal with fossilized errors?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:03 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nfor the next hour my tweets dedicated to #eltchat<\/a> fossilized errors<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:03 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> I quite like your distinction between ‘mistake’ and ‘error’ there… it’s a useful one in some ways. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:03 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @EnglAdvantage<\/a>: fossilized error is when the error is a force of habit, perhaps? Students don’t know they are making a mistake anymore. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:03 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nWhen you focus on the error, students can make the correction, but on their own, the same errors persist #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:03 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> It’s a mistake that keeps recurring despite constant correction<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:03 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nThey are not aware at the time, but often they make mistakes orally but not in written production #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:04 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nDo they always know they’re making a mistake? Guess not. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:04 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @sandymillin<\/a>: @englishraven<\/a> To me, a fossilized error is a problem with pronunciation, grammar, vocab which SS learnt wrong & now needs 2 change #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:04 pm<\/a><\/td>\nAlexandraKouk<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nwhen they’re completely unaware that they’ve made a mistake \/ sure they’ve made none? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:04 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> Good point. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:04 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @AlexandraKouk<\/a>: when they’re completely unaware that they’ve made a mistake \/ sure they’ve made none? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:04 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a>: Do they always know they’re making a mistake? Guess not. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:04 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @janetbianchini<\/a>: #ELTChat<\/a> It’s a mistake that keeps recurring despite constant correction<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:04 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoeMcVeigh<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI find these errors most often occur in grammar and pronunciation. Other areas? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:04 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nEven fluent speakers can have fossilised errors #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:05 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: When you focus on the error, students can make the correction, but on their own, the same errors persist #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:05 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @janetbianchini<\/a>: #ELTChat<\/a> It’s a mistake that keeps recurring despite constant correction|yes, good definition!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:05 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nfossilized not just in the case of one student but repeated by many speakers of a particular lang. inbuilt L1 interference #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:05 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @janetbianchini<\/a>: Even fluent speakers can have fossilised errors #ELTChat<\/a> > Definitely.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:05 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoeMcVeigh<\/a>: I find these errors most often occur in grammar and pronunciation. Other areas? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:05 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoeMcVeigh<\/a>: I find these errors most often occur in grammar and pronunciation. Other areas? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:05 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI’m curious when all y’all consider the mistake to have become fossilized #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:05 pm<\/a><\/td>\nKarenInGreece<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: They are not aware at the time, but often they make mistakes orally but not in written production #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:05 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> well, if we have Ss that know English, it’s a common mistake; if they are learning, it’s an error. am I right?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:05 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @janetbianchini<\/a>: Even fluent speakers can have fossilised errors #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:05 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoeMcVeigh<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> I think more of individuals rather than group errors. Examples? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:06 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoeMcVeigh<\/a> #eltchat<\/a> Also includes word forms e.g. spectaculous from all of my CAE students multiple times! (for spectacular)<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:06 pm<\/a><\/td>\njacekbetleja<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:06 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> – (said only half-jokingly): the mistake that makes you want to scream, “WHY are you still saying\/writing that after X years???”<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:06 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> Yes, persistent appears to be a criteria for calling an error fossilized… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:06 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @stopspanglish<\/a>: #ELTChat<\/a> – (said only half-jokingly): the mistake that makes you want to scream, “WHY are you still saying\/writing that after X years???”<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:06 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nrt @michelleworgan<\/a> They are not aware at the time, but often they make mistakes orally but not in written production #eltchat<\/a> > agree!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:06 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @stopspanglish<\/a>: #ELTChat<\/a> – (said only half-jokingly): the mistake that makes you want to scream, “WHY are you still saying\/writing that after X years???”<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:06 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @stopspanglish<\/a>: #ELTChat<\/a> – (said only half-jokingly): the mistake that makes you want to scream, “WHY are you still saying\/writing that after X years???”<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:06 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nAlso things like false friends can be consistent errors despite being told again and again #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:06 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a>:when mistake to have become fossilized #eltchat<\/a> > as said when repeat correction doesn’t help #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:06 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @stopspanglish<\/a>: #ELTChat<\/a> – (said only half-jokingly): the mistake that makes you want to scream, “WHY are you still saying\/writing that after X years???”<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:06 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nHello #eltchat<\/a>, my connection is very unstable today, but I’ll do my best!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:07 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@mmgrinberg<\/a> We’re happy to have you, even unstably :-0 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:07 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoeMcVeigh<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@sandymillin<\/a> Maybe they are just being creative. My native speaker TESOL students say “ginormous” ! #ELTchat<\/a> \ud83d\ude42<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:07 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nIt does intrigue me, because some gaps and developing areas of language are called ‘fossilized’ errors ‘coz Ts assume it is known. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:07 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@karenmoka<\/a> you must come and join us at #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:07 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTchat<\/a> hello and sorry to be late to my co-moderators @barbsaka<\/a> and @englishraven<\/a> Just came out of class<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:07 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nwhen advanced stds make the same mistakes as they did at lower levels – they are fossilized #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:07 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nDo posters help ss overcome their fossilized errors? I’ve tried it with one group of mine and the result was quite interesting. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:07 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nStart the party! RT @michelleworgan<\/a>: when advanced stds make the same mistakes as they did at lower levels – they are fossilized #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:07 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> Great to have our other moderator on board! #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:08 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoshSRound<\/a>: RT @janetbianchini<\/a>: Even fluent speakers can have fossilised errors #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:08 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> – also, mistakes that non-native teachers may not “hear” after a certain number of years teaching English at a high level.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:08 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a>:I’ve tried it with one group of mine and the result was quite interesting. #ELTChat<\/a> > do tell<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:08 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> Bring you up to speed, we’re trying to define and describe ‘fossilized error’ to start with… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:08 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @stopspanglish<\/a>: #ELTChat<\/a> – also, mistakes that non-native teachers may not “hear” after a certain number of years teaching English at a high level.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:08 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> Need to catch up with the stream of conversation #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:08 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: @Marisa_C<\/a> Bring you up to speed, we’re trying to define and describe ‘fossilized error’ to start with… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:08 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @bcnpaul1<\/a>: fossilized not just in the case of one student but repeated by many speakers of a particular lang. inbuilt L1 interference #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:08 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> How did you use the posters? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:09 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@stopspanglish<\/a> Even with NESTs after years you don’t notice some errors with vocab or intonation #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:09 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nProb w such errors is how best to deal with, when fossilization is evident in 1 or 2 learners in a grp? much easier in 1-2-1s #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:09 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nBest definition so far? #ELTchat<\/a> pls RT it for me \ud83d\ude42<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:09 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nExample: my YLs say “What spell?” consistently but I don’t consider it fossilized because they’re young and there’s still hope \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:09 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoeMcVeigh<\/a> I’m thinking of errors typical to, say native eng.spkrs learning spanish (pron & grammar) inbuilt & v.diff to lose #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:09 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nMy ss would keep saying “I have 20 years old” despite my constant correction. What did I do? I wrote it on a poster… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:09 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n‘Fossilized’ actually means there’s little you can do about it, that’s what Rod Ellis says #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:09 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nFor people who want to delve into this more, I recommend reading up on terms ‘interlanguage’ and ‘(free) variation’ #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:09 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nPlease friends of #ELTchat<\/a> do not post irrelevant updates to our topic during our chat<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:09 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nDeciding what and when to correct – interesting post to read for later\u00a0http:\/\/tinyurl.com\/69thnnp<\/a>#ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:09 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@mmgrinberg<\/a> We should just stop #eltchat<\/a> now then! \ud83d\ude09<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:10 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\ncrossed it out and wrote the correct sentence just below it. They always referred to it whenever they talked about their ages. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:10 pm<\/a><\/td>\nAlexandraKouk<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nperhaps when Ss have no motivation to improve, stop paying attention to correction? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:10 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @mmgrinberg<\/a>: ‘Fossilized’ actually means there’s little you can do about it, that’s what Rod Ellis says #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:10 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@mmgrinberg<\/a> very frustrating for learners if nothing can be done!! #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:10 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI don’t consider YL mistakes to be fossilized cos they will prob correct those errors as they get older #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:10 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @janetbianchini<\/a>: Deciding what and when to correct – interesting post to read for laterhttp:\/\/tinyurl.com\/69thnnp<\/a> #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:10 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: I don’t consider YL mistakes to be fossilized cos they will prob correct those errors as they get older #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:10 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoshSRound<\/a>: @mmgrinberg<\/a> very frustrating for learners if nothing can be done!! #ELTchat<\/a> > or liberating.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:11 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> There are mistakes (or errors as some would have them) which remain with one for good #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:11 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> My stds still make that mistake with “have” at high levels and they know how it should be #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:11 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoeMcVeigh<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> So what is diff between fossilization and typcial interlanguage errors? Or is fossilization a part of interlanguage? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:11 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> That’s a very good point, because it leads to another question: What actually causes fossilization? #ELTChat<\/a> (cause\/cure)<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:11 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTchat<\/a> I have five posters with FOR TO blocked out by a NO circle; need reprinting every year, but they do work.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:11 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nFossilized means that the mistake has been repeated until it sounds right to the learner. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:11 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> did the poster approach correct the error? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:12 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoshSRound<\/a> I think something can be done #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:12 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> thanks Barbara – but I don’t actually agree that Ss always know they are making the mistake #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:12 pm<\/a><\/td>\nAlexandraKouk<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_C<\/a>: Please friends of #ELTchat<\/a> do not post irrelevant updates to our topic during our chat<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:12 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoeMcVeigh<\/a> @sandymillin<\/a> Maybe they are just being creative. My native speaker TESOL students say “ginormous” ! #ELTchat<\/a> > recursiON?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:12 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a> don’t consider YL mistakes to be fossilized cos they will prob correct those errors as they get older #eltchat<\/a> > Hope so<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:12 pm<\/a><\/td>\nDRichW<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTCHAT<\/a> Interesting to compare to ‘native’ errors – repetitons false starts etc. If they’re understood is it a problem?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:12 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoeMcVeigh<\/a> It would appear that fossilization IS a natural feature of interlanguage development, I think… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:12 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Raquel_EFL<\/a> Yes, that’s been part of the discussion as well, but the distinction between error and mistake was useful \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:12 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> Yes, that’s been part of the discussion as well, but the distinction between error and mistake was useful \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:13 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> They didn’t work at first. After looking at the poster over and over again, they finally started saying “I am 25…” #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:13 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@DRichW<\/a> I don’t think native speaker false starts and repetitions are an issue becos rule-governed in their untidiness #ELTCHAT<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:13 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nPersonally, I think close 1-1 intervention (if poss) can help a learner with foss errors #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:13 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI think most fossilized errors are due to L1 interference #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:13 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @mattledding<\/a>: Fossilized means mistake has been repeated until it sounds right to the learner. >>subconsciously know its wrong? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:13 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI think most fossilized errors are due to lack of correction, maybe? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:13 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> the way I try to teach how not to make a mistake is writing down or saying something wrong, and elicit Ss to check it<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:13 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoeMcVeigh<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: I think most fossilized errors are due to L1 interference #eltchat<\/a> >> Agree!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:14 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: I think most fossilized errors are due to L1 interference #eltchat<\/a> > the connection between interlang and errors<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:14 pm<\/a><\/td>\nNikkiFortova<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_C<\/a>: @barbsaka<\/a> thanks Barbara – but I don’t actually agree that Ss always know they are making the mistake #ELTchat<\/a> –<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:14 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @janetbianchini<\/a>: I think close 1-1 intervention (if poss) can help a learner with foss errors >> agree, with persistent help #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:14 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> – Coaches don’t consider running, body mistakes to be fossilized; everything’s fixable with enough patience and being careful.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:14 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@NikkiFortova<\/a> … and I agree with you. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:14 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> Not all of them, that’s for sure #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:14 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: I think most fossilized errors are due to L1 interference #eltchat<\/a>>the connection between interlang and errors #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:14 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> Or… well, what causes other kinds of fossilization to occur? Lack of motion, basically! #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:14 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nisn’t it possible that fossilization is what moves the langauge towards a more international language? errors = quirks \/ evolution #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:14 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nfor my older students (60s) I notice that often the fossilized errors are actually the way they were taught Eng way back when #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:14 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a> I think most fossilized errors are due to lack of correction, maybe? #ELTChat<\/a> – I agree in some cases<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:14 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @bcnpaul1<\/a>: isn’t it possible that fossilization is what moves the langauge towards a more international language? errors = quirks \/ evolution #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> Interesting thought, Paul #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTchat<\/a> So some think they are duel to L1 interference others to lack of correction – #ELTchat<\/a> could they also be a result of instruction?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: for my older students (60s) I notice that often the fossilized errors are actually the way they were taught Eng way back when #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> for example, the same third person singular mistake: he have. if no one notices it, I explain why we shouldn’t say “he have”<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> – …does it help to think of the brain as another muscle that can be trained?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_C<\/a>: #ELTchat<\/a> So some think they are duel to L1 interference others to lack of correction – #ELTchat<\/a> could they also be a result of instruction?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nPoint from @bcnpaul1<\/a> Do fossilized errors move us to international English? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nWell, if a student says something wrong and you correct them since the beginning, chances are this mistake will not be repeated. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nIndeed! RT @stopspanglish<\/a>: #ELTChat<\/a> – …does it help to think of the brain as another muscle that can be trained?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> ESSENTIAL distinction to be made: slip X error X mistake #eltchat<\/a> ~~ doest it make sense?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> @Marisa_C<\/a> You’ve both brought up a key point for us here, I think > The role of instruction in creating fossilization. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nFossilization happens when you realize that you can make a mistake and be understood and this occurs several times #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:15 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI’m not sure, though. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:16 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @stopspanglish<\/a>: Coaches dont consider running, body mistakes 2b fossilized; everythings fixable with patience and being careful. #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:16 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nPossibly too much presentation rather than having stds work things out for themselves could be one reason? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:16 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Raquel_EFL<\/a> No–could you explain a bit more? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:16 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> some fossilized errors have to be corrected. Like how 60 year old Spanish s pronounced “Breakfast”. Not 4 polite company.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:16 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@mmgrinberg<\/a>: so is student motivation important? I know I am lazy with my Russian and make many errors that I really shouldn’t #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:16 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nTeaching beginner level soundly and accurately is absolutely vital – the key to their future is in your hands #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:16 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI have heard a lot of fossilized errors in teachers sometimes – inability to fix despite access to knowledge is quite worrying #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:17 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> Yes, I think a lack of noticing\/discovery more problematic than not enough correction. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:17 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> I agree with this one. Creating student’s autonomy in a new language is the what we have to do, isn’t it? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:17 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a>: My personal favourite: fossilized mistakes that aren’t mistakes – “that’s what they say in England\/UK\/(wherever YOU’RE not from)”<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:17 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nAnd does not bode well about what we could fo for our learners #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:17 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_C<\/a>: I have heard a lot of fossilized errors in teachers sometimes – inability to fix despite access to knowledge worrying #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:17 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @EnglAdvantage<\/a>: RT @michelleworgan<\/a>: I think most fossilized errors are due to L1 interference #eltchat<\/a> > the connection between interlang and errors<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:17 pm<\/a><\/td>\ntonnet<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: Point from @bcnpaul1<\/a> Do fossilized errors move us to international English? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:17 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a> Prevention is more significant than defossilization<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:17 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> Well, there’s the teacher’s use of the L2, but also the way they teach\/deal with the L2 methodology-wise… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:17 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@EnglAdvantage<\/a> @mmgrinberg<\/a> Same with my spanish – lazy as know I make persistent errors. Trbl is no-one ever corrects me #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:17 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@EnglAdvantage<\/a> It’s important to be willing to go beyond bare understanding #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:18 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nmy st says ‘I have 14 years’ it’s wrong but I get it so he’s communicated effectively. he spks eng. w\/30 others who say the same.. #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:18 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@mattledding<\/a> : Or Spanish speakers saying “beach” or “sheet…” #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:18 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> offtopic: a friend of mine saying that doesn’t get anything I tweet: RT @misscolifata<\/a>: @juanalejandro82<\/a> la Twitterclass es por ?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:18 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_C<\/a>: I have heard a lot of fossilized errors in teachers sometimes – inability to fix despite access to knowledge is quite worrying #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:18 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nSo “I have 20 years” is the Spanish variation of English, not an error? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:19 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nStudents love being corrected and they prefer teachers who correct over those who don’t (in my experience )#eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:19 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoHart<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ElTchat<\/a> from non-EL but literacy specialist – you can’t correct everything you firefight\/triage. Deal with what affects meaning most!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:19 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nit’s an error, then a common mistake! RT @barbsaka<\/a>: So “I have 20 years” is the Spanish variation of English, not an error? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:19 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nIt’s the whole accuracy vs fluency debate – which is more important? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:19 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> Nope. I think it’s an error and should be corrected, it doesn’t matter if they are able to communicate or not… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:19 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> We need to foster self-correction, I think #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:19 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> we do become used to our ss errors and then accept them; what abt if ss travel to uk for e.g; then may have probs? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:20 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoHart<\/a>: #ElTchat<\/a> from literacy specialist – you can’t correct everything you firefight\/triage. Deal with what affects meaning most!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:20 pm<\/a><\/td>\nKarenInGreece<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nDoes fossilization occur more in writing or speaking? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:20 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nMmm, yes, are certain fossils more acceptable (less crucial to pounce on) than others? Intelligibility most important criteria? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:20 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @jacekbetleja<\/a>: @mmgrinberg<\/a> Yes i think its vital to make ss reflect & even play with their mistakes #eltchat<\/a> don’t forget the hashtag<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:20 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> This may be cruel, but sometimes all you can do is stick one eyebrow up and say “What? THAT’s NOT English.”<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:20 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nErrors that impede or make communication difficult are the ones that should be worked on #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:20 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI try to focus first on common and severe errors–impede understanding. Correcting every error all the time is demotivating #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:20 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a> So “I have 20 years” is the Spanish variation of English, not an error? #eltchat<\/a> > it’s an idea \ud83d\ude42<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:20 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoshSRound<\/a> Not only do we become used to them, but they creep into our own English – sometimes I’ve noticed I don’t use articles #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:20 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nAgreed @JoHart<\/a> I never expect to effectively correct more than one error at a time #eltchat<\/a> More than that becomes talking ‘about’ language<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:20 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @mmgrinberg<\/a> @Marisa_C<\/a> We need to foster self-correction, I think #eltchat<\/a> – agreed! Much better for ss<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:20 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: Errors that impede or make communication difficult are the ones that should be worked on #eltchat<\/a> > agree but….<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:21 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @janetbianchini<\/a>: RT @mmgrinberg<\/a> @Marisa_C<\/a> We need to foster self-correction, I think #eltchat<\/a> – agreed! Much better for ss<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:21 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: Errors that impede or make communication difficult are the ones that should be worked on #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:21 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @stopspanglish<\/a>: #ELTChat<\/a> > I sometimes pretend to weep.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:21 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> Yes, everbody in a Romance language country understands the “I have 20 years” #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:21 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@sandymillin<\/a> Ha ha, yes, know what you mean \ud83d\ude42 #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:21 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> @barbsaka<\/a> : It’s a mistake!! We can’t have adjectives. (Well, not in the non-Biblical sense, anyway.) #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:21 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @dlmartino76<\/a>: @englishraven<\/a> it all depends on what ss r going to use the language for #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:21 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n…There are jobs etc where full accuracy is a requirement – teachers, diplomats, negotiators, …#ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:21 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoeMcVeigh<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nCalifornia study showed that professors often more disturbed by errors not impeding comm. E.g. article usage. Graded lower. #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:22 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoeMcVeigh<\/a>: California study showed that professors often more disturbed by errors not impeding comm. E.g. article usage. Graded lower. #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:22 pm<\/a><\/td>\nAlexandraKouk<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nself- and peer-correction when possible can be more effective that T-correction #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:22 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a> Too often we take sts errors for granted hoping they’ll realize it. However, this is when errors become fossilized.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:22 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: @michelleworgan<\/a> Yes, I think a lack of noticing\/discovery more problematic than not enough correction. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:22 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> Yes but I think it depends on the level – do u correct all elementary std’s mistakes? There are too many surely! #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:22 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nSo far what I hear is that fossilized errors are those that can be corrected in isolation but return persistently #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:22 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @BrunoELT<\/a>: #eltchat<\/a> biological, social-affective, cultural, pedagogical, cognitive +environmental perspectives of a lang can lead to fossilized errors<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:22 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @stopspanglish<\/a>: @EnglAdvantage<\/a> I don’t blame you one bit!!! I might try that. #eltchat<\/a> >if you ham it up it actually helps them remember<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:22 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoeMcVeigh<\/a> Right. Articles take years to master, but are low-risk for effective communication. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:22 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: It’s the whole accuracy vs fluency debate – which is more important? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:23 pm<\/a><\/td>\nKarenInGreece<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nSome of my sts seem to have fossilized on ‘must + to’, no matter how many times\/ways I correct them\/get them to self-correct #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:23 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nMy idea is to record an intermediate speaker of their L1 and let them reflect on what they _felt_ #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:23 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> No of course not – i just specified i think #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:23 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nOk. Much has been said about fossilized errors, but how can we deal with them in an effective way? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:23 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoeMcVeigh<\/a> because simple errors lower overall impression of someone? This is a prob for business ppl (perceived as such by them) #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:23 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nLinear (or over-linear) modes of instruction increase the chance of fossilization, IMO #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:23 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@KarenInGreece<\/a> That’s a classic one. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:23 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> Yes you did, I was talking generally \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:23 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoHart<\/a> I believe you mispelt the hashtag: #ELTchat<\/a> ?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:24 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: Linear (or over-linear) modes of instruction increase the chance of fossilization, IMO #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:24 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @janetbianchini<\/a>: Students love being corrected and they prefer teachers who correct over those who don’t (in my experience )#eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:24 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoHart<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTchat<\/a> fossilized then perhaps from embedded 1st language structure – we have same with Indigenous languages<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:24 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @AlexandraKouk<\/a>: self- and peer-correction when possible can be more effective that T-correction #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:24 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: Linear (or over-linear) modes of instruction increase the chance of fossilization, IMO #ELTChat<\/a> > recycling vital<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:24 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> once a student asked “why ‘am’ and not ‘have’ when referring to the age?” I said because we were old and we didn’t have a number<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:24 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a>: Ok. Much has been said about fossilized errors, but how can we deal with them in an effective way? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:24 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoHart<\/a>: #ELTchat<\/a> fossilized then perhaps from embedded 1st language structure – we have same with Indigenous languages<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:24 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_C<\/a>: RT @englishraven<\/a>: Linear (or over-linear) modes of instruction increase the chance of fossilization, IMO #ELTChat<\/a> > recycling vital<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:24 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_C<\/a>: …There are jobs etc where full accuracy is a requirement – teachers, diplomats, negotiators, …#ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:24 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nproblem is when we spend so long listening to the errors we get used to them- we know what they mean but outside the c’room? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:24 pm<\/a><\/td>\njacekbetleja<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a> what about playing games with the mistajes<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\ntheteacherjames<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a>: Ok. Much has been said about fossilized errors, but how can we deal with them in an effective way? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @bcnpaul1<\/a>: problem is when we spend so long listening to the errors we get used to them- we know what they mean but outside the c’room? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> : Ts also need to be taught HOW to correct & that correction doesn’t have to mean conflict. #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> To me, it’s key to work on conditions rather than just the errors. Constant noticing and motion are crucial. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nWhat’s one technique you’ve used that successfuly worked with fossilized errors? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_C<\/a>: RT @englishraven<\/a>: Linear (or over-linear) modes of instruction increase the chance of fossilization, IMO #ELTChat<\/a> > recycling vital<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: What’s one technique you’ve used that successfuly worked with fossilized errors? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> Posters. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> : “Whaaaaat? That’s not English. No one in the UK is going to understand what that means.” #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\ntheteacherjames<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @bcnpaul1<\/a>: problem is when we spend so long listening to the errors we get used to them- we know what they mean but outside the c’room? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @jacekbetleja<\/a>: #eltchat<\/a> what about playing games with the mistajes<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@jacekbetleja<\/a> What kinds of games? Can you give an example? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @jacekbetleja<\/a>: #eltchat<\/a> what about playing games with the mistajes > humour & tact important in error corre? (cont)\u00a0http:\/\/deck.ly\/<\/a>~SEXtW<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> I’ve started to get SS to record themselves speaking – most of the time they don’t realise they’re making the mistake #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> yep! The division occurs at the level of the intention. #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nFor some reason my RTs aren’t showing up #eltchat<\/a> nevermind!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:25 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoeMcVeigh<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @dlmartino76<\/a>: @JoeMcVeigh<\/a> do we want accurate students or just fluent and communicative?? #ELTChat<\/a> We want both !<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:26 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@stopspanglish<\/a> But then you might get reply “but I’m not in England” \ud83d\ude09 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:26 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@sandymillin<\/a> Do they hear the error when listening to themselves? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:26 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: @du_siemens<\/a> To me, it’s key to work on conditions rather than just the errors. Constant noticing and motion are crucial. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:26 pm<\/a><\/td>\nKarenInGreece<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> Do u think it’s that they’ve overgeneralised lang. patterns? And it doesn’t affect intelligibility so isn’t noticed? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:26 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nFocusing on one fossilized error at a time. Every time I hear it, I stop them and make them correct it.Eventually they self-correct #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:26 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Raquel_EFL<\/a> Thanks! #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:26 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI suggest using a lot of delayed feedback when they have to self-correct. Do it often and bit by bit #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:26 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> Writing. Slows down + takes a snapshot of how learners really feel the language works. Better noticing opportunities. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:26 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nWith stds I know well I give them a funny look and they know what I mean – we practised doing the same with each other – funny! #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:26 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> About 50 \/ 50 – but good for back-up when I point out errors too – can’t say “I don’t say that!” \ud83d\ude09 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:27 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @EnglAdvantage<\/a>: Focusing on one fossilized error at a time. Every time I hear it, I stop them and make them correct it.Eventually they self-correct #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:27 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a> What’s one technique you’ve used that successfuly worked with fossilized errors? #eltchat<\/a> – flashcards<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:27 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> Good Question – if Ss hear the error themselves means they can monitor self > less chance of fossilization #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:27 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@KarenInGreece<\/a> Nope… I think it takes a while until they understand it’s not “must to”, and “must + verb”… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:27 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoeMcVeigh<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nFirst step is self-awareness or noticing. Can’t correct if unaware they are making it. #ELTchat<\/a> Need to monitor.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:27 pm<\/a><\/td>\nyitzha_sarwono<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @BrunoELT<\/a>: #eltchat<\/a> Prevention is more significant than defossilization<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:27 pm<\/a><\/td>\nAlexandraKouk<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\npeer-correction often works – each S may make diff. fossilised errors #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:27 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nPaper whispers and ‘chats’ are useful #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:27 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> checking mistakes in sentences! “I will to go to the beach” and they know that the preposition is wrong #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:27 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoeMcVeigh<\/a>: First step is self-awareness or noticing. Can’t correct if unaware they are making it. #ELTchat<\/a> Need to monitor. <definitely<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:27 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nHowever the problem doesn’t lie with on the spot correction – how can we get them to not keep making the same mistake? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:28 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> Maybe get them to make one list of mistakes they hear corrected over and over again #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:28 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nCan we perhaps suggest some strategies and tips for dealing with errors that work for F-Zed errors? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:28 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @AlexandraKouk<\/a>: peer-correction often works #ELTchat<\/a> > Agreed, but peer-work can add to fossilization as well!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:28 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a> to prevent foss. Errors we need to discover and clarify why and how those errors occur<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:28 pm<\/a><\/td>\ntheteacherjames<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: @barbsaka<\/a> Writing. Slows down + takes a snapshot of how learners really feel the language works. Better noticing opportunities. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:28 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nhas anyone tried using a personalized “grammar diary” for students to list errors they want to fix? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:29 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nFor example, could we ask learners to keep a record of their own recurring errors? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:29 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nfocus on fossilized errors during correction slots at the end of an activity & get ’em to keep a fossil dictionary \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:29 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: has anyone tried using a personalized “grammar diary” for students to list errors they want to fix? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:29 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> : “I don’t understand what you’re saying.” (Even if I do.) #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:29 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nOnce when preparing for a Cambridge exam, I recorded my ss and showed them the tape script. They didn’t make those mistakes again. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:29 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> Self reflection, ss keep a list of their common errors (esp in writing), teacher gives spot dicatations\/ peer dictations<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:29 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> My First Fossil Dictionary lol #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:29 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_C<\/a>: RT @barbsaka<\/a>: has anyone tried using a personalized “grammar diary” for students to list errors they want to fix? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:29 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nIt’s very important to be able to control your own fluency vs accuracy. So, ask them to be more or *less* careful when speaking #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:29 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_C<\/a>: For example, could we ask learners to keep a record of their own recurring errors? #ELTchat<\/a> <think it’s a good idea<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:29 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: @barbsaka<\/a> Writing. Slows down + takes a snapshot of how learners really feel the language works. Better noticing opportunities. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:29 pm<\/a><\/td>\nyitzha_sarwono<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nWhen discussing problems, I write the answers on board,that way we can analyze together on what went wrong together,it helps a lot #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> I like the term ‘fossil dictionary” #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoHart<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_C<\/a>: For example, could we ask learners to keep a record of their own recurring errors? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nMaking written scripts of their own production is really helpful. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nTESOLacademic<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: So “I have 20 years” is the Spanish variation of English, not an error? #eltchat<\/a> – maybe it depe? (cont)\u00a0http:\/\/deck.ly\/<\/a>~cp65k<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a>: Once when preparing for a Cambridge exam, I recorded my ss and showed them the tape script. They didn’t make those mistakes again. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nLove it! RT @michelleworgan<\/a>: @bcnpaul1<\/a> My First Fossil Dictionary lol #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> an error diary sounds like a good idea; ss self-observing out of class & focusing on 1 or 2 persistent errors & report bk #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT@bcnpaul1<\/a> focus on fossilized errors during correction slots at the end of an activity & get ’em to keep a fossil dictionary \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> Great idea! Might try that one myself with FCE and CAE stds #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nDaveDodgson<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nBy @yearinthelifeof<\/a> How I developed an academic vocabulary syllabus: This is the first of two p… #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: Making written scripts of their own production is really helpful. #ELTChat<\/a> > maybe voice recordings?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> If the intention is not appropriate> mistake. If the action is not what was intended >slip. but how to measure it in lgg? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @mmgrinberg<\/a>: I suggest using a lot of delayed feedback when they have to self-correct. Do it often and bit by bit #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:30 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: With stds I know well I give them a funny look and they know what I mean – we practised doing the same with each other – funny! #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:31 pm<\/a><\/td>\nrliberni<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nHi all shelly & I are in Oxford off to ELTons later having signal problems! So can’t join #eltchat<\/a> today enjoy :-))<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:31 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoHart<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nAsking them to notice own errors in audio recording of self has works with 1st lang oral comm for me #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:31 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> I presented a workshop one year ago about this experiment. I’d be more than happy to share it with you. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:31 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @mmgrinberg<\/a>: RT @englishraven<\/a>: Making written scripts of their own production is really helpful. #ELTChat<\/a> > maybe voice recordings? >yes<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:31 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoHart<\/a>: Asking them to notice own errors in audio recording of self has works with 1st lang oral comm for me #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:31 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@sandymillin<\/a> : “I don’t care if we’re not in England.” (then say something =ly incorrect in Spanish.) “Is that OK? Can I say that?” #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:31 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@rliberni<\/a> We miss you but know you’re having fun. Lots of fingers crossed for you tonight! #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:31 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> lol #eltchat<\/a> my favourite fossils (a picture dictionary of well-know errors)<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:32 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> I have voice recordings and written scripts of my students… it is REALLY helpful. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:32 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_CFor<\/a> example, could we ask learners to keep a record of their own recurring errors? #ELTchat<\/a> – Great idea!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:32 pm<\/a><\/td>\nyitzha_sarwono<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: And work out what’s genuinely fossilized… If Ss can find a way to correct themselves, your corrections are wasting classroom air! #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:32 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nThis has also been really effective for my students:\u00a0 #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:32 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> #ELTCHAT<\/a> I find that spoken English has dif. errors than written because of it being slowed down.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:32 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a>: Once when preparing for a Cambridge exam, I recorded my ss and showed them the tape script. They didn’t make those mistakes again. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:32 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@rliberni<\/a> @ShellTerrell<\/a> have a wonderful time and @heikephilp<\/a> #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:32 pm<\/a><\/td>\ntheteacherjames<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> Keep a record – Definitely a good idea, but difficult for many Sts to maintain. Got to keep checking. #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:33 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: This has also been really effective for my students:\u00a0 #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:33 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsedayyildirim<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> after several corrections made both orally and written , I may consider the error to be fossilized #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:33 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@theteacherjames<\/a> I know its’ difficult but if you have a wiki, say and each student has a page it might work #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:33 pm<\/a><\/td>\nyitzha_sarwono<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoshSRound<\/a> @barbsaka<\/a> yup Error diary might works! #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:33 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @mmgrinberg<\/a>: RT @englishraven<\/a>: Making written scripts of their own production is really helpful. #ELTChat<\/a> > maybe voice recordings?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:33 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@sedayyildirim<\/a> What would you do next then? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:33 pm<\/a><\/td>\nyitzha_sarwono<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: This has also been really effective for my students:\u00a0 #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:34 pm<\/a><\/td>\nyearinthelifeof<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nHow I developed an academic vocabulary syllabus: This is the first of two posts describing th… #ELT<\/a> #ELTchat<\/a> #ESL<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:34 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a>: @Marisa_C<\/a> I have voice recordings and written scripts of my students… it is REALLY helpful. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:34 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> I think a series or recordings over time can help a lot #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:34 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: This has also been really effective for my students:\u00a0 #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:34 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nOver years, I’ve stopped a lot of direct 1-1 correction; gathered errors anonymously for ‘class errors’. Ss can see what’s theirs. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:34 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a> … We should not address the fossilized errors issue like that<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:34 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI do think that students have to be invested in correcting the error. Can’t simply be teacher pointing out problem \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:35 pm<\/a><\/td>\ntheteacherjames<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: This has also been really effective for my students:\u00a0 #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:35 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> Yeah. I have lots of them here… and it’s good for them to see how much progress they’re making. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:35 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> How do you write up the transcripts? By listening and typing? Must take a long time! #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:35 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: I do think that students have to be invested in correcting the error. Can’t simply be teacher pointing out problem \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:35 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nWhat exactly do you feel when talking to someone who makes a lot of fossilized mistakes in yr lang? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:35 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a> this has also been really effective for my students:\u00a0 #ELTChat<\/a> – looks great Jason!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:35 pm<\/a><\/td>\ntheteacherjames<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> #eltchat<\/a> Student motivation is, as always, key.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:36 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoshSRound<\/a>: @englishraven<\/a> agree, anonymous delayed feedback with class peer correcting, ss can recognise what is theirs #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:36 pm<\/a><\/td>\nAlexandraKouk<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nsth like soundcloud helps a lot with oral records #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:36 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> Well, it surely does… but it’s worthwhile, both for me and for my students. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:37 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoshSRound<\/a>: @englishraven<\/a> agree, anonymous delayed feedback with class peer correcting, ss can recognise what is theirs #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:37 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a> do you guys have the same feeling: adult learners like “to create” their own f-Ed errors so as not to get out of their comf zone?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:37 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@theteacherjames<\/a> Right, motivating Ss to really look at and experiment with their language is the key #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:37 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsedayyildirim<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nHowever , I don’t give up making corrections even if the error is fossilized , there is hope ! #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:37 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nAsk some students to be monitors and write down exactly what they hear #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:37 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@BrunoELT<\/a> Oh yes, I’ve noticed that too! #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:37 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nif you use sthg like voicethread they have access to their own spkg anywhere – hwk tasks cd be pick out yr gd bits & the ‘fossils’ #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:37 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@mmgrinberg<\/a> I feel as if they weren’t guided enough or corrected by whoever taught them #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:37 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> idea: ss -ss fos pairwk game: switch foss journal. try to get the other to get other to make error fr. foss journal for 1 point.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:38 pm<\/a><\/td>\nokamisensei<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoshSRound<\/a> True, but coaches also can’t make a little person dunk. Aptitude matters. #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:38 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @BrunoELT<\/a>: #eltchat<\/a> do you guys have the same feeling: adult learners like “to create” their own f-Ed errors so as not to get out of their comf zone?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:38 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> Still think www.voxopop.com is better than Voicethread for ELT speaking work online… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:38 pm<\/a><\/td>\nrliberni<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nThnx fir all ur best wishes shld be a good nite sitting shoulder 2 shoulder with the gr8 & good of ELT lol \ud83d\ude09 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:38 pm<\/a><\/td>\nKarenInGreece<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI find using humor to point out common errors can help i.e. when sts tell me “I talk TO the phone” I act out talking to my phone. #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:38 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @mmgrinberg<\/a>: Ask some students to be monitors and write down exactly what they hear #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:38 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nActually, I’ve noticed that the “karaoke effect” really cuts down on errors #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:38 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmattledding<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: Over years, I’ve stopped a lot of direct 1-1 correction; gathered errors anonymously for ‘class errors’. Ss can see what’s theirs. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:38 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @KarenInGreece<\/a>: I find using humor to point out common errors can help i.e. when sts tell me “I talk TO the phone” I act out talking to my phone. #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:38 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> Great idea Paul! Will try it with voicethread or similar #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:38 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@janetbianchini<\/a> What do you feel a speaker not teacher? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:38 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nWho uses IWB here? I have a presentation in the ActivPrimary software with my ss recordings and I’d willingly share with you guys. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:39 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nIf students are being recorded, or producing language to share, they become very careful with accuracy \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:39 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @bcnpaul1<\/a>: if use sth like voicethread ss access their own spkg anywhere – hw cd be pick out yr gd bits & the fossils>>nice idea #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:39 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: If students are being recorded, or producing language to share, they become very careful with accuracy \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:39 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nWhat’s a karaoke effect, @barbsaka<\/a>? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:39 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: If students are being recorded, or producing language to share, they become very careful with accuracy \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:39 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @sedayyildirim<\/a>: However , I don’t give up making corrections even if the error is fossilized , there is hope ! #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:39 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a>: What’s a karaoke effect, @barbsaka<\/a>? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:39 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@KarenInGreece<\/a> Absolutely. A fun\/playful approach to error correction certainly goes down better (+ is more memorable?) #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:39 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoHart<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@waykatewit<\/a> @Marisa_C<\/a> @barbsaka<\/a> @BrunoELT<\/a> @Marisa_C<\/a> @mmgrinberg<\/a> Thq #ELTchat<\/a> tweeps for RTs\/mentions & for not minding a non-EL prtcpnt<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:40 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> They just can’t help some mistakes, even though they try their best not to make them… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:40 pm<\/a><\/td>\ntheteacherjames<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> #eltchat<\/a> But we can definitely help by creating revision opportunities, whether the sts realise it or not.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:40 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@rliberni<\/a> all the best tonight! #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:40 pm<\/a><\/td>\nstopspanglish<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a> – sorry, guys, have to head out. Class in 45 min. Been great chatting w\/ all of you. Have a good one!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:40 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI agree about positive attitudes to correction – we’ve talked about correction before and that came out very strongly #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:40 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@mmgrinberg<\/a> I would not get into “teacher” mode with so I don’t know, but it depends on my relationship with that person #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:40 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: If students are being recorded, or producing language to share, they become very careful with accuracy \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a> > true!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:40 pm<\/a><\/td>\nokamisensei<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: Over years, I’ve stopped a lot of direct 1-1 correction; gathered errors anonymously for ‘class errors’. Ss can see what’s theirs. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:40 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> I haven’t really looked at voxopop – I’ll give it a try later. thnx for the tip #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:40 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nWhat about asking the ss to actually make mistakes: not less than 10 a minute let’s say? Should help to master the acc\/flcy control #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:40 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nKaraoke effect–like singing in your shower vs singing with a karaoke mic in a bar. You’re more careful with an audience \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:41 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoHart<\/a> Jo, your contributions are very interesting – keep talking ! #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:41 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT@barbsaka<\/a> If students are being recorded, or producing language to share, they become very careful with accuracy \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a> – yes!!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:41 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoeMcVeigh<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nFossilized errors sometimes respond to good old-fashioned drill work. Promotes self-awareness . . . eventually. #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:41 pm<\/a><\/td>\nyitzha_sarwono<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nmy students tend to speak slowly and clearly and carefully when they are of being recorded #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:41 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nYes! RT @Marisa_C<\/a>: @JoHart<\/a> Jo, your contributions are very interesting – keep talking ! #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:41 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> Got it now. Thanks. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:41 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI used this with adv stds\u00a0http:\/\/youtu.be\/P8gqhTlUnCg<\/a> and we then spent the lesson making faces and eliciting self correction #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:41 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> I use IWBs & I’d like to see yr pres. #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:41 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: I used this with adv stds\u00a0http:\/\/youtu.be\/P8gqhTlUnCg<\/a> and we then spent the lesson making faces and eliciting self correction #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:42 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmonalisa_eigo<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nInteresting! RT @barbsaka<\/a>: If students are being recorded, or producing language to share, they become very careful with accuracy #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:42 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @JoeMcVeigh<\/a>: Fossilized errors sometimes respond to good old-fashioned drill work. Promotes self-awareness . . . eventually. #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:42 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmonalisa_eigo<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: Karaoke effect–like singing in your shower vs singing with a karaoke mic in a bar. You’re more careful with an audience \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:42 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> DM me with you e-mail address. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:42 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a> According to @thornburyscott<\/a> “playing dumb” is a good way of dealing with f-Ed errors<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:42 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nEvery class, I debrief my stds’s twibes posts w\/ them. And their writing has improved a lot since then. #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:42 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> I will too \ud83d\ude42 #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:42 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoeMcVeigh<\/a> I agree, Joe. There is definitely still a place for drills, if applied effectively at effective times. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:42 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoeMcVeigh<\/a> yes, that subconscious awareness has 2 become conscious, then can self-monitor better #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:42 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Raquel_EFL<\/a>: Every class, I debrief my stds’s twibes posts w\/ them. And their writing has improved a lot since then. #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:43 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @BrunoELT<\/a>: #eltchat<\/a> According to @thornburyscott<\/a> “playing dumb” is a good way of dealing with f-Ed errors\u00a0 > Agree<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:43 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTChat<\/a> once I gave Ss score at the beginning of the class, and they had to keep it. it was fun, but not productive at all.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:43 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nHowever, if students CAN correct themselves with an audience, but make the same mistake w\/o, I wonder how important it is to them #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:43 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#ELTchat<\/a> I agree good old-fashioned drill work is very important especially at lower levels when ss begin to learn English – it does pay off<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:43 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> Please. I’d be honoured… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:43 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@monalisa_eigo<\/a> Hi! Glad to see you here tonight \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:43 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @BrunoELT<\/a>: #eltchat<\/a> According to @thornburyscott<\/a> “playing dumb” is a good way of dealing with f-Ed errors\u00a0 #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:45 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@BrunoELT<\/a> I think that’s a great idea for older learners perhaps? Not very young children? What do you think? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:45 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmrsenorhill<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: If students are being recorded, or producing language to share, they become very careful with accuracy \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:45 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoHart<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> @Marisa_C<\/a> #ELTchat<\/a> – Thank you both – I am interested as much EL crosses into 1st lang lit & also speakers of pidgins\/creoles<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:45 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@BrunoELT<\/a> in EFL settings, I’ve found regular time for “usual suspects” (common error patterns based on L1 interference) work well. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:45 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@BrunoELT<\/a> I mean, ss reporting their peer’s mistakes to the teacher. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:45 pm<\/a><\/td>\ntheteacherjames<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @BrunoELT<\/a>: #eltchat<\/a> According to @thornburyscott<\/a> “playing dumb” is a good way of dealing with f-Ed errors\u00a0<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:46 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@JoHart<\/a> Ah another fascinating area – when does an error become pidginised? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:46 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@stopspanglish<\/a> @mattledding<\/a> @mattledding<\/a> spanish speakers always say b***tch and they laugh because they know! #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:46 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> you need to be following me for me to DM you \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:46 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> Yes to usual suspects. I do the same. #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:46 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEurominuteman<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a> @mattledding<\/a> To my Thesis Inclusion, rhetoric propaganda does not remedy your lack of anti-thesis to Exclusion<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:46 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> agree Marisa. Perhaps YL are not mature enough to realize their peers errors #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:46 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @michelleworgan<\/a>: Sometimes explaining the consequences of mistakes can make them more important to stds – #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:47 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> @BrunoELT<\/a> Actually, YLs can be surprisingly good with this. They’re often more perceptive\/flexible than adults! #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:47 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@BrunoELT<\/a> But are YLs already making fossilized errors? Or just ones which might potentially fossilize? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:47 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@BrunoELT<\/a> Not sure about that, YLs often laugh when somebody makes a mistake… not a nice reaction but sometimes effective #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:47 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nYLs do it when it becomes a game #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:47 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nIn speaking activities I get ss to act as teachers and note down errors 4 constructive f\/back in their groups #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:47 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> Are they? Can they understand the concept of fossilization? that was my question not if they can spot errors #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:47 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @janetbianchini<\/a>: In speaking activities I get ss to act as teachers and note down errors 4 constructive f\/back in their groups #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:48 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI think of YL errors are persistent, not fossilized :-0 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:48 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> Yes, that was the question I answered \ud83d\ude42 #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:48 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@janetbianchini<\/a> Nice idea – assigning the mantle of the teacher to learners is a great idea #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:48 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> thanks #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:48 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> Sometimes teachers don’t understand the concept of fossilization, let alone students… What do you think? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:48 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: I think of YL errors are persistent, not fossilized :-0 #eltchat<\/a>|me too – hopefully they can be remedied!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:48 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> @barbsaka<\/a> Remember we now have YLs at age 8 or 9 who have been learning English for 5-6 years… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:49 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@michelleworgan<\/a> it’s all abt the environment + the tone of the class we tchrs create. Laughing at ur own mistakes can work wonders #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:49 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\ninstead of saying “we’re going to the beach” a student ends up saying “we’re going to the brothel” got the joke? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:49 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a> looks like our troll is paying a visit – maybe because he’s a fossilized error<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:49 pm<\/a><\/td>\nAnfieldRoad2<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @monalisa_eigo<\/a>: Interesting! RT @barbsaka<\/a>: If students are being recorded, or producing language to share, they become very careful with accuracy #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:49 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @bcnpaul1<\/a>: #eltchat<\/a> looks like our troll is paying a visit – maybe because he’s a fossilized error > TWEET OF THE YEAR SO FAR!!!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:49 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> Thanks – it’s imp though for groups to have good relationship with each other – great for IELTS speaking exam classes etc #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:49 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @bcnpaul1<\/a>: #eltchat<\/a> looks like our troll is paying a visit – maybe because he’s a fossilized error|I always get spam during eltchat<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:49 pm<\/a><\/td>\nKarenInGreece<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @BrunoELT<\/a>: @michelleworgan<\/a> it’s all abt the environment + the tone of the class we tchrs create. Laughing at ur own mistakes can work wonders #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:49 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> Still think of the errors are persistent rather than fossilized–maybe just optimistic? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:50 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoHart<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> #ELTchat<\/a> Weeell! good question! 2nd language for some of our Indigenous peoples is pidgin\/creole & 3rd lang is English<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:50 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: RT @bcnpaul1<\/a>: #eltchat<\/a> looks like our troll is paying a visit – maybe because he’s a fossilized error > TWEET OF THE YEAR SO FAR!!!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:50 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: @englishraven<\/a> Still think of the errors are persistent rather than fossilized–maybe just optimistic? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:50 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> why have you not blocked him out of exisrtence i wonder…. #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:50 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nIf the intention is not appropriate> mistake. If the action is not what was intended >slip. but how to measure it in language use? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:50 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @BrunoELT<\/a>: @michelleworgan<\/a> it’s all abt the environment + the tone of the class we tchrs create. Laughing at ur own mistakes can work wonders #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:50 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nNo need to name! Just report the mistake. RT @du_siemens<\/a>: @BrunoELT<\/a> I mean, ss reporting their peer’s mistakes to the teacher. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:51 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> that last tweet was for you \ud83d\ude00 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:51 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@BrunoELT<\/a> Ok… and I do that a lot. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:51 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Raquel_EFL<\/a> Nice distinction, but now sure how to measure (or if teachers would have time) #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:51 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: @BrunoELT<\/a> in EFL settings, I’ve found time 4″usual suspects” (common error patterns based on L1 interference) #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:51 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> I think 4-5 years constant English, + emerging cognition at 8-9, make many YLs more than capable of handling the idea. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:51 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> he he good one – maybe because all he does is talk to himself and no one else? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:51 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI sometimes copy my ss errors, change them a little bit and put them on the board so that nobody “knows” who said that… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:52 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a>: I sometimes copy my ss errors, change them a little bit & put on the board so that nobody “knows” who said that… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:52 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Raquel_EFL<\/a> Instinct, knowledge of students, guessing. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:52 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nThen it means you still care abt ur sts and dont want 2 embarrass them ?RT @du_siemens<\/a>: @BrunoELT<\/a> Ok… and I do that a lot. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:52 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@monalisa_eigo<\/a> sounds interesting! don’t forget to add #eltchat<\/a> to your tweets so everyone sees them \ud83d\ude42<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:52 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@BrunoELT<\/a> That’s definitely right. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:53 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> There are signs of fossilization starting to happen at those stages\/ages, anyway (I reckon). #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:53 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nLesson idea – Play lots of Grammar auctions with pretend money – alerts ss to analyse common mistakes in a fun way! #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:53 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nAnyone got any links to more on this topic? #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:53 pm<\/a><\/td>\nAlexandraKouk<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @janetbianchini<\/a>: Lesson idea – Play lots of Grammar auctions with pretend money – alerts ss to analyse common mistakes in a fun way! #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:53 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a>: I sometimes copy my ss errors, change them a little bit and put them on the board so that nobody “knows” who said that… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:53 pm<\/a><\/td>\nKarenInGreece<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> I do the same. Or I mention that it’s a common error in the class so they don’t start fingerpointing #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:53 pm<\/a><\/td>\nCeciELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nReally sorry to have missed #ELTChat<\/a> (and today’s topic), but have had fun lurking for the last 5 min – can’t wait to see the transcript.:-)<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:54 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@janetbianchini<\/a> I have a game here just like that, a game called “Auction Game” and I just change the grammar topic. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:54 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nIt’s important to be able to talk to a ‘fresh’ person who hasn’t got used to hearing yr fossils. Ideally she shouldn’t speak yr L1 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:54 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @EnglAdvantage<\/a> @Raquel_EFL<\/a> Instinct, knowledge of students, guessing. #ELTChat<\/a> > yes… but it’s hard, agree?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:54 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> I agree–especially with students who spent time in ESL classes (survival). but, still optimistic! #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:54 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> @englishraven<\/a> \ud83d\ude42 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:54 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> you just got a new follower? let’s chat more after #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:54 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @KarenInGreece<\/a>: @du_siemens<\/a> I do the same. Or I mention that it’s a common error in the class so they don’t start fingerpointing #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:54 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nhttp:\/\/tinyurl.com\/69thnnp<\/a> #eltchat<\/a> This looks great!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:54 pm<\/a><\/td>\nEnglAdvantage<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Raquel_EFL<\/a> Definitely an art, not a science #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:54 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@KarenInGreece<\/a> Yeah, and they do enjoy this activity… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:55 pm<\/a><\/td>\nethess<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@janetbianchini<\/a> : a good idea esp. after a test so u can deal with mistakes made without saying names #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:55 pm<\/a><\/td>\ntheteacherjames<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> I copy my ss errors, change them so that nobody “knows” who said that… #ELTChat<\/a> – Me too, though difficult when teaching 121!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:55 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nrt @barbsaka<\/a> @Raquel_EFL<\/a> Nice distinction, but now sure how 2 measure (or if teachers would have time) #eltchat<\/a> > agree! food 4 thought \ud83d\ude42<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:55 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n“Sentence Navigator” – something I developed for YLs to do more noticing\/experimenting with language patterns: #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:55 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmrsenorhill<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nSometimes I have students mimic different accents we find recordings of. Helps cut down on inhibitions that cause mistakes. #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:56 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@theteacherjames<\/a> OMG! 121? You’re my hero… I already go mad with my 16. LOL. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:56 pm<\/a><\/td>\nJoshSRound<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nHave to go! Thanks everyone for another gr8 chat! Hope to make it for later one too #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:56 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a> We all must agree that life is too short to aim perfection! Teach ur sts how to be critical and they themselves will realize error<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:56 pm<\/a><\/td>\nokamisensei<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @mrsenorhill<\/a>: Sometimes I have students mimic different accents we find recordings of. Helps cut down on inhibitions that cause mistakes. #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:56 pm<\/a><\/td>\nAlexandraKouk<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nwith YLs you can play games like snakes and errors, too #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:56 pm<\/a><\/td>\nKarenInGreece<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> Also putting up good sentences helps.. and ask them to spot those with the errors.The cognitive investment is worth it #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:56 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@BrunoELT<\/a> Thank you, Bruno. I’ll follow you too. I guess we have lots of things to talk about… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:56 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @mrsenorhill<\/a>: Sometimes I have students mimic different accents we find recordings of… #eltchat<\/a> > including non-native accents ?<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:56 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndish_chan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nInteresting conversation going on at #Eltchat<\/a> Especially for a teacher and a FL learner. d(???)!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:56 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a> “Sentence Navigator”developed 4 YLs 2 do more noticing\/experimenting with language patterns: #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:56 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> I’m optimistic about it too! I don’t see fossilization as a sort of massive failing, I guess… Sth to approach head on. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:57 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nDon’t know if it’s been shared, but @kalinagoenglish<\/a> had a good post about fossilized errors: #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:57 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: Don’t know if it’s been shared, but @kalinagoenglish<\/a> had a good post about fossilized errors:\u00a0 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:57 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: Don’t know if it’s been shared, but @kalinagoenglish<\/a> had a good post about fossilized errors:\u00a0 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:57 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmichelleworgan<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nGames are always good for revisiting common mistakes as it doesn’t seem like repeating the same language points over and over #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:57 pm<\/a><\/td>\ntheteacherjames<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@du_siemens<\/a> #ELTChat<\/a> hahaha, it’s more like one to one!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:57 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@KarenInGreece<\/a> Yeah. I wish I could do it in every class, but I’m afraid it can be quite time-consuming sometimes… #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:57 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @janetbianchini<\/a>:\u00a0http:\/\/tinyurl.com\/69thnnp<\/a> #eltchat<\/a> This looks great!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:57 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@theteacherjames<\/a> Thank God we have people like you. LOL #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:58 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@englishraven<\/a> Totally agree–I just hate slapping the fossilized label on them. Sad to be labeled hopeless at 10 \ud83d\ude41 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:58 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @AlexandraKouk<\/a> with YLs you can play games like snakes and errors, too #ELTchat<\/a> – fab! Also adults enjoy playing snakes and ladders!!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:58 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@dish_chan<\/a> Thanks for joining us #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:58 pm<\/a><\/td>\nBrunoELT<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n#eltchat<\/a> @kalinagoenglish<\/a> wrote an article about f-Ed errors:\u00a0http:\/\/bit.ly\/KYGaq<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:58 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nGuys, I have some games, activities here and I’d like to share with you… send your e-mail addresses to me. #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:58 pm<\/a><\/td>\nMarisa_C<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nWell, as we are drawing to a close, when do f-ed errors become worrying? When there’s only 1 or 2 or when we are talking masses? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:58 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbcnpaul1<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nhave to go – thx @marisa_c<\/a> @englishraven<\/a> @barbsaka<\/a> for moderating another gr8 chat. See you at the later #eltchat<\/a> i hope.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:58 pm<\/a><\/td>\njuanalejandro82<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nnice learning with you again… see you next wednesday! #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:58 pm<\/a><\/td>\ntheteacherjames<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @barbsaka<\/a>: Don’t know if it’s been shared, but @kalinagoenglish<\/a> had a good post about fossilized errors:\u00a0 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:59 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@barbsaka<\/a> Interesting point you raise there – the overwhelmingly negative connotations automatically associated with ‘fossilized’? #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:59 pm<\/a><\/td>\nKarenInGreece<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nA fossilized error of my prof sts is 2 use ‘convenient’ 4 ‘comfortable’.Played O’s & X’s vocab game yest with these,think it helped #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:59 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@bcnpaul1<\/a> Bye Paul. Keep barefootin it! #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12:59 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\n@Marisa_C<\/a> F-ed errors become worrying when they show lack of motivation and lack of general self-awareness. Do you agree? #ELTchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
1:00 pm<\/a><\/td>\nsandymillin<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @englishraven<\/a>: “Sentence Navigator” – something I developed for YLs to do more noticing\/experimenting with language patterns: #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
1:00 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @BrunoELT<\/a>: #eltchat<\/a> @kalinagoenglish<\/a> wrote an article about f-Ed errors:\u00a0http:\/\/bit.ly\/KYGaq<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
1:00 pm<\/a><\/td>\nRaquel_EFL<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @Marisa_C<\/a>: RT @barbsaka<\/a>: Don’t know if it’s been shared, but @kalinagoenglish<\/a> had a good post about fossilized errors:\u00a0 #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
1:00 pm<\/a><\/td>\ndu_siemens<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nI hate #ELTChat<\/a> when it ends… ;(<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
1:00 pm<\/a><\/td>\nmmgrinberg<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a>: I hate #ELTChat<\/a> when it ends… ;(<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
1:00 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nSome great ideas to try out with error correction! Be sure to report back if you try something and it works! #eltchat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
1:00 pm<\/a><\/td>\njanetbianchini<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nThanks to all the lovely moderators + everyone for a fascinating #eltchat<\/a> as always. I’ll be back tonight!!!<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
1:00 pm<\/a><\/td>\nbarbsaka<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nRT @du_siemens<\/a>: I hate #ELTChat<\/a> when it ends… ;(<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
1:01 pm<\/a><\/td>\nenglishraven<\/a>:<\/strong><\/td>\nWell, end of chat session is upon us. Some really good ideas and resources shared. Thanks! #ELTChat<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This is the transcript of the first #ELTchat on dealing with fossilized errors on 23\/02\/2011 11:59 am englishraven: Welcome to #ELTChat everyone! I’m co-moderating with @barbsaka tonight, hope you’ll join us to chat about ‘fossilized errors’ 11:59 am barbsaka: RT @juanalejandro82: I only say to my followers: I’m sorry, it’s Wednesday and it’s time for…
Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[13],"tags":[30,50,120],"class_list":["post-1152","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-transcripts","tag-correction","tag-errors","tag-teaching-methods"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1152","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1152"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1152\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1152"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1152"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1152"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}