{"id":3398,"date":"2012-05-30T20:00:42","date_gmt":"2012-05-30T19:00:42","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/eltchat.com\/?p=3398"},"modified":"2012-05-30T20:00:42","modified_gmt":"2012-05-30T19:00:42","slug":"do-elt-publishers-have-too-much-influence-or-do-they-lag-behind-the-times-eltchat-summary-16052012","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/2012\/05\/30\/do-elt-publishers-have-too-much-influence-or-do-they-lag-behind-the-times-eltchat-summary-16052012\/","title":{"rendered":"Do ELT Publishers have too much influence or do they lag behind the times? #ELTchat Summary 16\/05\/2012"},"content":{"rendered":"

This summary was contributed by Michael Griffin and first appeared on his blog ELT Rants, Reviews & Reflections<\/span><\/a>. It is reproduced here with his kind permission.<\/em><\/span><\/h3>\n

 <\/p>\n

The Summary\u00a0<\/span><\/h1>\n

The lively and, dare I say inspiring, chat took place on May 16th<\/sup>, 2012 at 12:00 pm BST and was expertly moderated by\u00a0@rliberni,\u00a0<\/strong>@Shaunwilden,\u00a0<\/strong>and\u00a0@Marisa_C.<\/strong><\/p>\n

The question we started with was, \u201cDo ELT publishers have too much influence and are they out of touch with reality? Do they lag behind the times?<\/strong>\u201d<\/p>\n

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Photo by @michaelgriffin<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n


\nCoursebooks have a big influence<\/span><\/strong><\/h2>\n

There seemed to a consensus that coursebooks (CBs) \u00a0have a big influence in the field. Some chatters mentioned that this influence is \u00a0apparent in initial teacher training and that novice teachers tend to rely heavily on coursebooks especialy because coursebooks provide a structure as well as a starting point. @rliberni\u00a0<\/strong>added another example of the influence of coursebooks by stating,\u00a0 \u201cSome school timetables are so frantic that there simply isn\u2019t time to create anything new \u2013 CBs are the simplest way. \u201d Again, there wasn\u2019t much disagreement on the influence of coursebooks.<\/p>\n

Publishers do more than just coursebooks<\/span><\/strong><\/h2>\n

@Aslibasarirunlu\u00a0<\/strong>wondered if it was right to talk about coursebooks and suggested \u201ccourse materials since it usually so much more.\u201d Additionally,\u00a0@OUPELTGlobal\u00a0<\/strong>mentioned that they already have a lot of \u00a0learning apps (mainly graded readers) and that \u201cit\u2019s only a matter of time\u201d until they get into making things for ipads. Free webinars, local seminars, free resources, and more teacher resource books were also mentioned as desired directions.<\/p>\n

Publishers can be helpful<\/strong><\/span><\/h2>\n

The professional development opportunities that publishers provide was mentioned as a positive point. \u00a0As @elawassell\u00a0<\/strong>mentioned, \u201cIn some countries \u2013 the workshops organised by the publishers are the only form of PD for many teachers.\u201d In terms of positive experiences,\u00a0@Kevchanwow<\/strong>\u00a0wrote, \u201cI\u2019ve only had good experiences with publishers. They want to me to keep buying their books after all.\u201c\u00a0<\/strong>\u00a0Another mention of how publishers can be helpful was made by @theteacherjames<\/strong>\u00a0who wrote, \u201cDespite my reservations regarding coursebooks, I have to say that Resource Books for Teachers are fantastic. #creditwhereitsdue.\u201d<\/p>\n

Context and adaptation<\/strong><\/span><\/h2>\n

The issues of context and adaptation were mentioned quite frequently in the chat, with some teachers expressing the view that coursebooks don\u2019t suit their contexts and wishing for materials that match better. \u00a0For example,\u00a0@worldteacher<\/strong>\u00a0wrote, \u201cHere in Vietnam we spend a lot of time adapting CBs to make them less euro-centric.\u201d In response\u00a0@hartle<\/strong>\u00a0wrote, \u201cwe do that in Europe too !!! to make them relevant.\u201d\u00a0@worldteacher<\/strong>\u00a0 responded writing, \u201cI agree and I, too, have always adapted for local use but my point is that in Asia EVERYTHING has to be changed!<\/p>\n

@Shaunwilden\u00a0<\/strong>wondered what it would mean for books to adapt to specific contexts, writing, \u201cSo what that means is a different book for each local context?\u201d \u00a0In response,\u00a0@elawassell\u00a0<\/strong>suggested that this was unrealistic and idealistic.\u00a0@Marisa_C r<\/strong>eminded us that, \u201cPublishing HAS become much more localised \u2013 diff books for Muslim countries for example.\u201d\u00a0@Kevchanwow\u00a0<\/strong>added that, \u00a0\u201dThere are Japan \u00a0\u2019focused\u2019 CBs, but even localized CBs can\u2019t make the students suddenly want to talk.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0@teflerinha<\/strong>\u00a0 added that she thinks CB\u201ds \u201cneed to leave plenty of room for personalisation\/adapting to local context- provide a framework.\u201d She\u00a0also mentioned that adaptation is part of using a coursebook, by writing, \u201cIsn\u2019t that part of using a CB- still less work than starting from scratch?\u201d and \u201cEvery context is different, nothing will fit all perfectly\u201d Words of agreement were added by\u00a0@theteacherjames<\/strong>\u00a0who wrote, \u201cIt\u2019s not realistic to expect a book to fit your situation. Adaption should be normal & encouraged.\u201d \u00a0Along the same lines,\u00a0@Marisa_C<\/strong>\u00a0wrote, \u201cAgree \u2013 adaptation a given \u2013 no perfect coursebook can exist by definition.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Some ideas for publishers<\/strong><\/span><\/h2>\n

Hey, publishers, not only did #ELTchatters not bash you (too much) they also shared some suggestions and tips. Some of them are as follows (free from the good people at #ELTchat):<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. \u201cMaybe a digitally evolving CB with print on demand?\u201d\u00a0@rliberni\u00a0<\/strong><\/li>\n
  2. \u201cI\u2019d love to see publishers really adapt to new media. Subscription charges which lead to sending out regularly updated lessons etc\u201d @MrChrisJWilson<\/strong><\/li>\n
  3. \u201cThe ideal CB wd be a structure with topics, ideas, suggestions pointing teachers & stds towards all the other resource.\u201d @hartle<\/strong><\/li>\n
  4. \u201c<\/strong>I strongly believe that grammar points should not be stuck in with each unit. It assumes that grammar learning is linear. I\u2019d like 2 see more holistic lexico-grammar coverage. None of this: Here are the 5 uses of the present perfect types of confusing lists.\u201d\u00a0@chiasuan<\/strong><\/strong><\/li>\n
  5. \u201cThe option to adapt should be built into the design of the book, but I don\u2019t think that happens.\u201d\u00a0@theteacherjames\u00a0<\/strong><\/li>\n
  6. \u201cPublisher-provided \u201cskeleton\u201d + localized\/owned\/updated content = result. In few yrs, this shd be possible.\u201d\u00a0@Wiktor_K<\/strong><\/strong><\/li>\n
  7. Echoing some of the ideas mentioned previously, @OUPELTGlobal\u00a0<\/strong>wrote, \u201cIdeally, we\u2019d move to a mix of online and print, with online being more customizable to different teaching styles and cultures.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    Possible reasons for (possible) inertia \u00a0<\/strong><\/span><\/h2>\n

    Some chatters argued that the types of changes being suggested would be prohibitively expensive for publishers and that this was the reason that coursebooks are the way they are.\u00a0@theteacherjames<\/strong>\u00a0mentioned that \u201cthe licensing, writing, sub-editing & licensing costs would be huge\u201d for these suggestions.\u00a0@esolcourses<\/strong>\u00a0disagreed by stating that if a small staff can do it anyone can do it. Some other points mentioned were:<\/p>\n

      \n
    1. \u201cMy biggest concern about publishers is that they tend to talk to\/base decisions on \u2018the choir\u2019.\u201d\u00a0@Rliberni\u00a0<\/strong><\/li>\n
    2. \u201cI think publishers are trying to update with some \u00a0good websites, but they have problems with differing activity types, copyright etc.\u201d\u00a0@Rliberni<\/strong><\/li>\n
    3. \u201cImpossible to be perfectly \u201cup to speed\u201d here \u2013 too many markets and course flavours. Find a niche or stay \u201cgeneral\u201d & slower?\u201d@Wiktor_K<\/strong><\/li>\n
    4. \u201cLet\u2019s face it we here are not the mainstream & pubs need to sell books the market will dictate to a large extent.\u201d\u00a0@rliberni\u00a0<\/strong>I personally think this is an important point to keep in mind as the typical #ELTchat-er might not exactly be the target market for most teaching materials.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

      Hey, let\u2019s not bash publishers<\/strong><\/span><\/h2>\n

      Here are some quotes that \u201cdefend\u201d publishers to various degrees.<\/p>\n

        \n
      1. \u201cSorry, can\u2019t get on the bash the publishers bandwagon. Teaching starts with the teacher knowing what & how to teach.\u201d \u00a0@Kevchanwow<\/strong><\/li>\n
      2. \u201cPublishers have a hard job, need and want to make good material\u2026need to make money and sell them. Sometimes the same\u201d @MrChrisJWilson<\/strong><\/li>\n
      3. \u201c<\/strong>It\u2019s worth bearing in mind that traditional doesn\u2019t always=bad though.\u00a0 Can sometimes still be relevant.\u201d \u00a0@esolcourses<\/strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/li>\n
      4. \u201cI\u2019ve been teaching for 30 yrs and the improvement in cbs has been massive imo.\u201d \u00a0@timjulian60<\/strong><\/li>\n
      5. \u00a0\u201dI think though that publishers cannot be blamed for the huge numbers of untrained blind CB following Ts\u201d\u00a0@Marisa_C<\/strong><\/li>\n
      6. I think publishers probably have too much [power] but only as much as we give them.\u00a0@elkysmith\u00a0<\/strong><\/li>\n
      7. \u201cCBs are only out of touch if we think of them as THe curriculum\u00a0 or THE course.\u201d \u00a0@michaelegriffin. \u00a0<\/strong>A\u00a0<\/strong>few people seemed to agree with this, and @harrisonmike<\/strong>\u00a0responded by saying, \u201cShame that in many contexts the books go hand in hand with the course. \u2018Welcome to X school, here is your Headway\u2019\u2019 while @\u00a0MrChrisJWilson\u00a0<\/strong>sagely guessed \u201c the name COURSEbook helps to create that paradigm.\u201d\u00a0@OUPELTGlobal\u00a0<\/strong>added, \u201cTrouble is, many schools have no choice. In some countries, they ARE the ministry-approved syllabus\u2026in many schools too & it makes sure that everyone delivers the syllabus \u2013 can\u2019t blame them.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

        What do students want?<\/strong><\/span><\/h2>\n

        Happily, this was a common question as #ELTchatters wondered how students would might feel to not use a coursebook at all. Another concern was students rarely using a coursebook that they purchased and might expect to use. \u00a0Another question was what students really want in coursebooks. \u00a0@t4lk2pam\u00a0<\/strong>wondered about students\u2019 expectations and how they are met. \u00a0@rliberni\u00a0 <\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

        This summary was contributed by Michael Griffin and first appeared on his blog ELT Rants, Reviews & Reflections. It is reproduced here with his kind permission.   The Summary\u00a0 The lively and, dare I say inspiring, chat took place on May 16th, 2012 at 12:00 pm BST and was expertly moderated by\u00a0@rliberni,\u00a0@Shaunwilden,\u00a0and\u00a0@Marisa_C. The question we…
        Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[12],"tags":[31,85,115,120],"class_list":["post-3398","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-summary","tag-coursebooks","tag-materials-design","tag-syllabus-design","tag-teaching-methods"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3398","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3398"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3398\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3398"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3398"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3398"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}