{"id":4473,"date":"2012-10-11T16:17:33","date_gmt":"2012-10-11T16:17:33","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/eltchat.org\/wordpress\/?p=4473"},"modified":"2012-10-11T16:17:33","modified_gmt":"2012-10-11T16:17:33","slug":"do-you-teach-grammar-explicitly-if-so-how-if-not-why-not-an-eltchat-summary-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/2012\/10\/11\/do-you-teach-grammar-explicitly-if-so-how-if-not-why-not-an-eltchat-summary-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Do you teach grammar explicitly? If so, how? If not, why not? – An #eltchat summary"},"content":{"rendered":"

This summary was contributed by\u00a0Shaun Wilden on his blog<\/a>\u00a0and is reproduced here with his kind permission.<\/em><\/p>\n

<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
\n

The topic (for the 12 BST #eltchat on 20.09) was suggested after #ELTchatters had read and started to react to an article from the Guardian written by Catherine Walter.\u00a0 Therefore you might want to read\u00a0the article<\/a>\u00a0before the summary. \u00a0One of the points that chatters made is that the evidence not as solid as article suggested.\u00a0 It was a fast and furious chat, nearing 600 tweets (which is double what we usually get for a lunchtime chat). As a result I have noit chosen all the threads for the summary or it wouldn\u2019t be much of a summary (it\u2019d be too long) . However I hope that what I chosen represents the meat of the discussion.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

What do we mean by explicit?<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u201cDoesn\u2019t this equate explicit grammar teaching with teacher led grammar explanations though\u201d.<\/p>\n

The early part of the discussion focused on what was actually meant by the term \u2018explicit\u2019.\u00a0 @AlexandraKouk asked if was referring to an inductive vs. deductive approach while @ louisealix68 interpreted \u201cexplicit\u201d as inductive followed by deductive. @teflgeek wondered if \u2018explicit grammar teaching\u2019 was just telling the learners \u201cwe\u2019re going to do some grammar today\u201d as opposed to teaching grammar by stealth.\u00a0 @michelleworgan asked if asking students for or give examples of grammar and try to get students to notice the rules\/differences counted as explicit.<\/p>\n

The debate continued with points such as whether explicit teaching was age related (see later in the summary) or if context of the learner played a part, with @teacherphili saying EAP\/ESP would require a higher explicit grammar component.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Further comments added:<\/p>\n

–\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s not just writing rules on the WB \u2013 right?<\/p>\n

–\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Non-explicit to me would be e.g. via chunks<\/p>\n

–\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 With explicit reference to grammatical terms and rules, perhaps?<\/p>\n

–\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So explicit teaching is when you deliberately set out to teach a specific language point, regardless of how you teach?<\/p>\n

–\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think the problem with explicit grammar instruction comes when it overtakes the lesson and there\u2019s little time for production.<\/p>\n

–\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Wouldn\u2019t it be more relevant to use explicit teaching alongside other pedagogies throughout the year<\/p>\n

–\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Explicit grammar teaching does not necessarily mean rule GIVING \u2013 it could be rule DISCOVERY<\/p>\n

–\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Isn\u2019t it just about using different tools for different jobs?\u00a0 Sometimes learners need EGT, other times they need to figure it out<\/p>\n

Perhaps the issues we had with the understanding of the word \u2018explicit\u2019 are best summed up by @waykatewit \u201cit seems that there are different types of explicit teaching, some better than others.\u201d<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

The role of metalanguage:<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

@ ElkySmith wondered if explicitly meant using metalanguage i.e. writing TL on WB, highlighting, underlining, explaining, providing additional examples. \u00a0He felt metalanguage is one of an array of tools for helping students understand otherwise opaque linguistic features. Others, such as @teflerinha wondered if you can draw students\u2019 attention to grammar without using grammatical terminology? On the other hand, @AlexandraKouk felt it couldn\u2019t be just a matter of using terminology or not \u2013 how about priming and scaffolding activities? Are they too explicit?<\/p>\n

All in all opinion indicated that metalanguage had its place but it was definitely possible to have too much emphasis on learning ABOUT grammar<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Who sets the syllabus?<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

A side thread of the discussion was how much grammar teaching was influence by the coursebook and workbook, which tend to be more \u2018telling\u2019 than \u2018noticing\u2019 when it comes to approaches. Chatters asked if materials and syllabi just followed convention? In many cases the course book is the syllabus setter rather than the teacher? \u00a0@stiiivProb said the blame lay with CLT \u00a0with grammar teaching in traditional CLT not taking context seriously. Context, participant relations, culture all shape grammar #eltchat. @ChrisGyford asked while so many local exams are designed to test explicit understanding of grammar so what choice do we have?<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

So what\u2019s the best way to teach grammar (according to teachers)?<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u201cIf they demand rules, I give \u2018em rules!\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cFor me, EGI is about telling Ss: \u2018This is what we\u2019re focusing on, this is why it\u2019s important, here\u2019s how to use it, now you try\u201d<\/p>\n

@ michaelegriffin on his brief appearance into the chat asked made an honest statement \u201cI\u2019m honestly not sure what people mean when they say \u201cgrammar\u201d \u201cteach\u201d \u201cteach grammar\u201d and all<\/p>\n

@ Marisa_C asked whether it was age related i.e. is more useable with YL or adults? With @ stiiiv taking up this theme by adding explicit (deductive) teaching of grammar requires cognitive maturity. Explicit teaching is too conceptually difficult for YL\u2019s \u2013 tell them what they CAN DO with this language rather than what language IS. The consensus on those who tweeted seemed to be that explicit grammar is not very effective for YL. And usually it bores them.<\/p>\n

@worldteacher made the point that teaching context was important using her own teaching context as an example, \u201c in my teaching context I have to teach explicitly \u2013 discovery method wouldn\u2019t work in Vietnam!\u201d, with @antoniaclare\u00a0 suggesting the same \u201cI don\u2019t think we can ever say that\u2019s the best way. Will differ for each student. I think it\u2019s helpful to focus on explicit grammar to help Sts to notice this language when outside class, or in later classes\u201d<\/p>\n

@ teflerinha asked Does anyone teach in a way where grammar is not commented on, but sts pick it up \u2018naturally\u2019? whereas @ esolcourses said \u201cI\u2019m not a fan of teaching explicit grammar, only do it if need arises \u2013 prefer to slip it in the mix.\u201d<\/p>\n

Of the different approaches raised one of my favourites was \u201cI\u2019ve always taught grammar explicitly, adding a \u201cshit\u201d rule is easy to teach deductively and quickly and easy to learn\u201d. Others included\u2026.<\/p>\n

@MissLadyCaz\u00a0<\/strong>I find that you can embed explicit teaching of grammar within the context of good texts and relevant learning experiences<\/strong><\/p>\n

@louisealix68I feel correct pedagogy is teaching what your pupils want\/need when they are ready for it. Cannot overgeneralise.<\/p>\n

@ MarjorieRosenb I introduce grammar points, give rules &amp; examples &amp; then we do loads of activities to practice<\/p>\n

Perhaps @teacherphili summed up the opinions of many taking part by tweeting \u201cit\u2019s when you teach grammar without you or the students realising you\u2019ve done it\u00a0\";)\"\u00a0\u201d<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

But what do the students want?<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

@cioccas: I find students want grammar explicitly\/visibly \/directly taught more than Ts #ELTchat especially when they have exams approaching (@teacherphili) but @ShetlandESOL argued there\u2019s a sense that \u2018students don\u2019t know what\u2019s good for \u2018em and explicit grammar instruction isn\u2019t it\u2019!<\/p>\n

@ShetlandESOL I work with adult learners, and they are generally keen to feel they are taking away some concrete grammar knowledge.<\/p>\n

@ Marisa_C Students\u2019 desire for explicit grammar instruction closely linked to Ts\u2019 thinking explicit teaching is what their job all about. Though many of the chatter own language learning experience led to believe that explicit language teaching made for dull lessons. @Marisa_C\u00a0 also stated What your students want or think they need is not always what they really need or the best way to learn \u2013 that s why YOU are the teache<\/p>\n

@ElkySmith I think students crave clarity and being explicit about grammar, aims, etc. provides that<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Other issues raised:<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

–\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How does explicit grammar teaching fit into the concept of the flipped classroom?<\/p>\n

–\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Doesn\u2019t explicit grammar teaching and an explicit grammar syllabus imply make the assumption [our students in whatever situation] don\u2019t know it already?<\/p>\n

–\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Linked to this, wouldn\u2019t we be taking a one-size fits all policy?<\/p>\n

–\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Do other approaches such as the \u2018natural\u2019 way or suggestopaedia work when teaching grammar?<\/p>\n

RT @teflgeek: Final words:\u00a0 explicit or otherwise, teaching not equal understanding, and understanding does not mean use #eltchat<\/p>\n

Thank you all that took part,\u00a0Catherine has agreed to do a follow up interview for the podcast about the topic so if you have any questions let us know.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

The cast list for the chat was\u2026.<\/p>\n

@teflgeek, @Shaunwilden, @AlexandraKouk, @ElkySmith. @antoniaclare, @cioccas, @theteacherjames, @teacherphili, @worldteacher, @louisealix68, @ShetlandESOL, @MissLadyCaz, @Absorb_English, @Marisa_C, @waykatewit, @MarjorieRosenbe, @teflerinha, @KathleenDrew5, @michaelegriffin, @stiiiv,@esolcourses,@Phoenixarc, @michelleworgan,@ChrisGyford, @SahalZyad, @pjgallantry, @roboseyo,@EvocationEFL, @AAwbathani, @pterolaur, @alturki3, @Macgyvelene,@GoldGrino, @AlannahFitz,@ StanzaSL<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This summary was contributed by\u00a0Shaun Wilden on his blog\u00a0and is reproduced here with his kind permission. The topic (for the 12 BST #eltchat on 20.09) was suggested after #ELTchatters had read and started to react to an article from the Guardian written by Catherine Walter.\u00a0 Therefore you might want to read\u00a0the article\u00a0before the summary. \u00a0One…
Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[12],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4473","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-summary"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4473","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4473"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4473\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4473"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4473"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4473"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}