{"id":4831,"date":"2012-12-15T16:52:17","date_gmt":"2012-12-15T16:52:17","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/eltchat.org\/wordpress\/?p=4831"},"modified":"2012-12-15T16:52:17","modified_gmt":"2012-12-15T16:52:17","slug":"using-the-phonemic-chart-or-not-an-eltchat-summary-07112012","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/2012\/12\/15\/using-the-phonemic-chart-or-not-an-eltchat-summary-07112012\/","title":{"rendered":"Using the phonemic chart – or not? An #eltchat summary (07\/11\/2012)"},"content":{"rendered":"

This summary was contributed by Rachael Roberts and is kindly reproduced from her blog<\/a> with her permission.<\/em><\/h4>\n

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Love it, hate it, feel guilty about it\u2026or just mystified?<\/p>\n

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The first\u00a0#ELTChat<\/a>\u00a0on Twitter 7th<\/sup>\u00a0November 2012 discussed the phonemic chart (and script) asking \u2018Do you use it? Why\/why not? And how?\u2019<\/p>\n

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There were quite a few participants who fell into the \u2018love it\u2019 category:<\/p>\n

@worldteacher \u2018I\u2019m a huge fan of the phonemic chart and use it in every lesson.\u2019<\/p>\n

@BobK99 \u2018Can\u2019t see how anyone can teach English effectively WITHOUT IPA.\u2019<\/p>\n

@Julian_L\u2019enfant \u2018I use the phonemic chart with learners of all ages. An excellent resource & important for learner autonomy.\u2019<\/p>\n

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Others, such as @teflerinha, @KerrCarolyn , @TEFL Geek , @jo_cummins, @sueAnnan \u00a0who like using it, but perhaps in more of an ad hoc way.<\/p>\n

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And those who didn\u2019t use it, such as @bnleez, @michaelegriffin, @theteacherjames and @garyJones 01 (who preferred to use rhymes and tonguetwisters)<\/p>\n

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So the stage was set for a good discussion from different angles, though there were probably more people in favour of using the chart than against. The arguments on both sides are set out below.<\/p>\n

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Overwhelming, intimidating?<\/strong><\/p>\n

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It\u2019s complicated, takes time and students don\u2019t know it (@michaelegriffin)<\/p>\n

@bnleez: Pronunciation varies to such a degree, I find the Phon. chart would cause more confusion for learners than it needs to be<\/p>\n

I found it intimidating as a new teacher, so what about students? (@jo_cummins)<\/p>\n

Agree it can be overwhelming for ss and worse for ss without Roman alphabet perhaps? (@teflerinha)<\/p>\n

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Or empowering?<\/strong><\/p>\n

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But using symbols empowers students (@worldteacher)<\/p>\n

If trained in the chart, students can get word outside classroom and note down pron themselves (@TEFLGeek)<\/p>\n

I agree with learner autonomy (@jo_Cummins)<\/p>\n

Teaching in France, \u2018improved pronunciation\u2019 is one of the most common objectives (@KerrCarolyn)<\/p>\n

I\u2019ve found students who have followed courses w\/pron more resourceful than new students entering the school (Julian_l\u2019Enfant)<\/p>\n

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Unnecessary?<\/strong><\/p>\n

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ELLs can use online dictionaries with sound files, so IPA is redundant (@bnleez)<\/p>\n

I\u2019m still not convinced the sts need to \u2018see\u2019 the pronunciation, just hear & reproduce it. (@theteacherjames)<\/p>\n

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Or a useful visual aid?<\/strong><\/p>\n

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Students need to have constant access to internet and to already be able to differentiate between sounds (@TEFLGeek)<\/p>\n

Great for use at home or if you have tech in the classroom \u2013 otherwise I\u2019ll stick to paper charts &amp; flashcards! (@worldteacher)<\/p>\n

seeing it helps with highlighting the difference in form (@sueannan)<\/p>\n

doesn\u2019t seeing it help lock it into the memory? (@shaunwilden)<\/p>\n

Some find it reassuring \u2013 identify visually what ears can\u2019t deal with (@KerrCarolyn)<\/p>\n

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Complicated?<\/strong><\/p>\n

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It\u2019s complicated, takes time and students don\u2019t know it (@michaelegriffin)<\/p>\n

@bnleez: Pronunciation varies to such a degree, I find the Phon. chart would cause more confusion for learners than it needs to be<\/p>\n

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Or not so much\u2026?<\/strong><\/p>\n

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it just looks intimidating but once you start to study it it is logical. (@jo_Cummins)<\/p>\n

Many symbols (e.g. consonants and some dipthongs) are self-evident (@teflerinha)<\/p>\n

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A restrictive model?<\/strong><\/p>\n

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Does the idea of a \u2018model\u2019 (as suggested by using a uniform chart) undermine local accents & non-native teacher \u2026(@laurahaha)<\/p>\n

@teflerinha thought that different allophones (versions of the same phoneme) could be included in each phoneme)<\/p>\n

There was also mention of the American IPA- see links below.<\/p>\n

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Unsuitable for learners without a Roman script, those with literacy problems or YLs?<\/strong><\/p>\n

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Previous #ELTChat on similar subject made the point that study showed learning symbols made students with different alphabet more anxious (@michaelegriffin)<\/p>\n

Interestingly my CELTA tutor told me its no problem for Korean\/Japanese Ss to pick up easily because new scripts r easy (@michaelegriffin)<\/p>\n

A new script shouldn\u2019t be too hard. Japanese and Chinese know thousands of characters. And most consonants are the same.(@EBEFL)<\/p>\n

@Marisa_C and @teflerinha both raised the point that it might not be a good idea for students who were already struggling with literacy (though @teflerinha would still probably use a few key symbols such as schwa)<\/p>\n

There was also a brief discussion about YLs, and here opinion was divided.<\/p>\n

I use it with adults but hardly use the symbols with YLs (@prese1)<\/p>\n

When teaching YLs we\u2019d use it as a secret code; Lee the Lion and Sid the Snake liked certain types of words.(@Julian_l\u2019Enfant)<\/p>\n

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What does the chart or phonemic script offer in addition to the teacher\u2019s other resources?<\/strong><\/p>\n

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The teacher can model pronunciation (@bnleeez) but..<\/p>\n

The chart can help with this as at least Underhills\u2019 version (see link below) shows the mouth positions as well (@teflerinha)<\/p>\n

It can really help with showing connected speech. E.g.(@harrisonmike):<\/p>\n

\/t\u032c\u028aw\u00e6plz\/<\/p>\n

This shows the intrusive \u2018w\u2019.<\/p>\n

@theteacher James suggested it would be as easy to write \u2018tu wapples\u2019<\/p>\n

But others disagreed:<\/p>\n

No- could be \u2018too wapplz\u2019 (@Marisa_C)<\/p>\n

No, because people write things phonetically in very different ways (@teflerinha)<\/p>\n

\u2018Tu wapples\u2019 could cause spelling mistakes (@harrisonmike)<\/p>\n

@Harrisonmike also described giving Farsi and Urdu speakers text in script to work out, and @teflerinha agreed that this was useful. For example:<\/p>\n

Would you like to\u2026? Could be represented as \/w\u028ad\u0292\u0259\u2019la\u026akt\u0259\/, which shows how this phrase sounds in connected speech much more effectively than the words alone.<\/p>\n

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Other ways to use the chart or IPA<\/strong><\/p>\n

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@Kerrcarolyn said \u201911 Colour vowel sounds are great. I use the colors with kids and they love coloring words and poems\u2019<\/p>\n

@harrisonmike \u2018good one is with minimal pairs and a maze on the board. eg. forked paths, one is 15, the other 50, or bin\/bean (Pronunciation Games)<\/a>– this is a link to Mark Hancock\u2019s blog, with lots of Pron Games and activities.<\/p>\n

@musical pass the symbol (@worldteacher)<\/p>\n

Great activity from Arizio Sweeting\u2019s new blog Pronunciation Central on\u00a0Chasing and Tagging Phonemes<\/a>\u00a0(and other pron activities too)<\/p>\n

@Bobk99 \u2018s\u00a0Phonemic Bingo<\/a><\/p>\n

For a much longer list of activity ideas see\u00a0the previous #eltchat on a similar subject\u00a0<\/a><\/p>\n

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Different charts<\/strong><\/p>\n

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This is\u00a0Adrian Underhill\u2019s chart and blog\u00a0<\/a>. Also see\u00a0@CGoodey\u2019s blog entry<\/a>\u00a0on Adrian\u2019s presentation and her \u2018aha\u2019 moment<\/p>\n

*Also\u00a0Adrian Underhills\u2019 webinar\u00a0<\/a>on using the chart.<\/p>\n

The British Council interactive char<\/a>t\u00a0also shows sounds in words with sound at beg, middle and end . You can click to hear these and it deals with allophones \u2013 the way phonemes can be slightly different in these different places.<\/p>\n

@julian_l\u2019Enfant suggested\u00a0Celce-Murcia Brinton & Goodwin\u2019s for an American English chart (there is also one on Adrian Underhill\u2019s blog, link above)<\/p>\n

@ElaWassell gave the link to Macmillan\u2019s\u00a0The sounds app<\/a>\u00a0
\n<\/a><\/p>\n

@michaelegriffin gave us a\u00a0link\u00a0<\/a>to five charts, including the two above.<\/p>\n

@harrisonmike shared a link to a\u00a0tool\u00a0<\/a>which will transcribe into IPA for you (not perfectly)<\/p>\n

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Other Links<\/strong><\/p>\n

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This is\u00a0the most useful pron site I\u2019ve found<\/a>–\u00a0really helps for teaching HOW 2 make the sounds (@phil3wade)P<\/p>\n

Phonetic typewriter<\/a>\u00a0which might come in handy for worksheets. \u00a0(@EBEFL)<\/p>\n

Cambridge has some\u00a0awesome phon games<\/a>\u00a0(@Marisa_C)<\/p>\n

Useful blog post<\/a>\u00a0from @clil2climb about teaching pronunciation\u00a0(@ElaWassell)<\/p>\n

@cybraryman1\u00a0My Pronunciation page<\/a>:\u00a0\u00a0Phonological Awareness\u00a0\u00a0<\/a><\/p>\n

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#ELTChat takes place every Wednesday at 12pm and 9pm UK time. Do join us!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This summary was contributed by Rachael Roberts and is kindly reproduced from her blog with her permission.     Love it, hate it, feel guilty about it\u2026or just mystified?   The first\u00a0#ELTChat\u00a0on Twitter 7th\u00a0November 2012 discussed the phonemic chart (and script) asking \u2018Do you use it? Why\/why not? And how?\u2019   There were quite a…
Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[12],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4831","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-summary"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4831","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4831"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4831\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4831"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4831"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4831"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}