{"id":4969,"date":"2013-01-23T15:18:27","date_gmt":"2013-01-23T15:18:27","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/eltchat.org\/wordpress\/?p=4969"},"modified":"2013-01-23T15:18:27","modified_gmt":"2013-01-23T15:18:27","slug":"the-grammar-teachers-ought-to-know-and-often-dont-eltchat-summary-25072012","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/2013\/01\/23\/the-grammar-teachers-ought-to-know-and-often-dont-eltchat-summary-25072012\/","title":{"rendered":"The Grammar Teachers Ought to Know and Often Don’t #ELTchat Summary 25\/07\/2012"},"content":{"rendered":"

This summary was written by Elizabeth Anne – @eannegrenoble on Twitter and is copied here from her blog <\/a>with her kind permission<\/em><\/p>\n

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Summary<\/h2>\n

Although our dear moderators did try to nudge us towards the specific grammar points implied in the title of this week\u2019s ELTchat – no one would go there and this evening\u2019s chat brought above all a plethora of books to read, with just a few online references (videos mainly) towards the end – Would that be the call of beaches and parasols before the summer break? LOL \u2013 though actually, lots were very definitely reference books rather than a straight read.<\/p>\n

Points brought up in the discussion about grammar and teacher\u2019s attitudes to grammar were that:<\/p>\n

– a \u201cfeel\u201d for grammar is important to counteract the over-generalisations of text books, and the problems encountered when a student has been given the wrong end of the stick. (\u201cthe feel is important, esp when trying to convince that sth really doesn\u2019t follow the rules they learned<\/em>\u201d )
\n-NESTs do not always have the knowledge to analyse their students\u2019 mistakes , and PD is essential \u201cwe owe it to our students<\/em>\u201d
\n-some chatters found grammar book boring whereas\u00a0\u00a0there was general agreement\u00a0\u00a0on the fact that ”\u00a0it is true that consulting ONE grammar only is not enough<\/em>”
\n– it is sometimes difficult to pick up on what grammar needs to be dealt with in class, due to ss \u201cavoidance\u201d techniques \u2013 dictagloss was suggested as one way round this
\n– on the other hand, filling in grammar pages is what some ss call learning (and some teachers, and some exams…)
\n\u201cThere is a difference\u00a0<\/em>(between)\u00a0knowing the grammar to isolate and help students<\/em>\u00a0(and)\u00a0\u00a0teaching it to the students\u201d, \u201cyou need to know way more\u00a0<\/em>(than just one step ahead)\u00a0cause u need to carefully ‘curate’ what to bring to class<\/em>\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n

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photo by @theteacherjames<\/p><\/div>\n

Some Suggested Resources and Comments<\/h2>\n

Parrott\u2019s Grammar for English Language Teachers<\/a>\u00a0\u201c<\/span>I regretted not having started with this BEFORE doing a CELTA<\/em>\u201d<\/span>George Yule\u00a0<\/a>“Explaining English Grammar”<\/a>\u00a0 \u201c<\/span>I recommend Yule for conditionals too, gr8 approach thinking of the meaning of each clause not 1st.<\/em>.\u201dSomeone mentioned Swann,<\/span>
would that be\u00a0<\/span>Practical English Usage<\/a>\u00a0or\u00a0<\/span>The Good Grammar Book\u00a0<\/a>?In any case, there\u2019s an interesting article (online) by Swan \u2013 \u201c<\/span>Does Grammar Teaching Work<\/a>\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Murphy was not high on the list of grammar-for-teachers. But\u00a0such a lovely person<\/a>\u00a0(online)<\/p>\n

\u201cThe Teacher\u2019s Grammar of English<\/a>\u201d by Ron Cowen was recommended for US English<\/p>\n

English Grammar Today\u00a0<\/a>(Carter, McCarthy et al)<\/p>\n

Teaching tenses<\/a>\u00a0by Rosemary\u00a0Aitken\u00a0was highly recommended, \u201cespecially for NNESTs<\/em>” and\u00a0“esp for LA assignment on a CELTA<\/em>\u201d<\/p>\n

Grammar for Smart People<\/a>\u00a0by Barry Tarshis\u00a0\u00a0with its subtitle \u201cyour user friendly guide to writing and speaking better English\u201d\u00a0\u00a0sounds like a cast off from the “Eats Shoots and Leaves” syndrome (to me, and I\u2019m holding the\u00a0pen\u00a0keyboard)<\/p>\n

When someone pointed out that the student\u2019s L1 would influence the specific the grammar needed by teachers Marisa quickly pointed them to \u201cLearner English<\/a>\u201d by Michael Swan, available in pdf,\u00a0\u00a0which highlights the specific problem zones for speakers of 22 different languages (or language families)<\/p>\n

Meaning and the English Verb<\/a>\u00a0by Geoffrey Leech from U Lancaster\u00a0\u00a0is in it\u2019s third edition and is still going strong after 30 years and was highly recommended\u00a0though with “caution about what Leech says about degrees of certainty with the futures! #eltchat cf\u00a0The English Verb\u00a0<\/a>– Lewis<\/em>“<\/p>\n

In a more general vein there was:<\/h3>\n

My Grammar and I (or should that be \u201cme\u201d?)<\/a>\u00a0said to be very \u201creadable\u201d<\/p>\n

http:\/\/www.unfoldingoflanguage.com\/<\/a>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0#guydeutscher<\/p>\n

But for truely pleasureable reading , I have to slip in Jean Aitchkinson\u2019s Reith Lectures \u00ab\u00a0The Language Web<\/a>\u00a0\u00bb Either the book or thedownloadable audio<\/a>\u00a0(5×45 mins)<\/p>\n

For people wanting to take up Willy Card\u2019s call to delve into Philiosopy, a great overview (first few chapters)\u00a0in this \u201cFuzzy Grammar – a reader\u201d<\/a>\u00a0edited by Bas Aarts (head of the Survey of English Usage group at UCL which was founded by Quirk).<\/p>\n

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Videos<\/strong><\/p>\n