This is a summary of the 9pm BST #eltchat summary from Wednesday 26<\/strong>th<\/sup><\/strong>June 2013<\/strong>. The topic was \u2018Classroom Discourse\u2019 and the pre- reading was the post Classroom Discourse<\/a>\u00a0by Geoff Jordan.<\/p>\n It was a bit of a slow, quiet chat with reasons ranging from long days and problems with TweetDeck to hot summer evenings!<\/p>\n Definition and types of classroom discourse<\/b><\/p>\n After some pleasantries we got onto defining the topic, but I\u2018m not sure we actually got a solid definition of classroom discourse so here\u2019s one from the Longman Dictionary of Language Teaching & Applied Linguistics:<\/p>\n <\/p>\n \u201cThe type of language used in classroom situations\u2026often different in form and function from language used in other situations because of the particular social roles students and teachers have in classrooms and the kinds of activities they usually carry out there\u201d.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n Photo from @NotyetLanguage #eltpics<\/p><\/div>\n \n<\/div>\n Marisa then suggested \u201c\u2026analysing types of teacher talk & student talk first?> What do you think\u201d <\/i>@Marisa_C<\/a><\/p>\n \u201csuppose irf\/display talk and real talk is one difference\u201d<\/i> @LizziePinard irf = initiation response feedback<\/p>\n \u201cand some t talk is classroom management & giving info\u201d <\/i>@MarjorieRosenbe<\/a><\/p>\n \u201ctwo very important functions of teacher talk \u2013 Informing and Directing \u2013 the third one perhaps being Eliciting?\u201d <\/i>@Marisa_C<\/a><\/p>\n \u00a0\u201cThe distinction between discourse that is \u2018real\u2019 or pedagogical is an interesting one that I hadn\u2019t considered before\u201d @theteacherjames<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u201c<\/i>@theteacherjames<\/a><\/i>: <\/i>The distinction between discourse that is \u2018real\u2019 or pedagogical .\u00a0#eltchat<\/a>\u00a0>as in talking 2 SS in order to really listen?\u201d @naomishema<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u201c@naomishema<\/a>\u00a0A real conversation vs a conversation with a specific learning outcome in mind so the true meaning is less important\u201d @theteacherjames<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u201c@naomishema<\/a>\u00a0A very good point of comparison!\u201d <\/i>@theteacherjames<\/a><\/p>\n \u201ccertainly works in B2+ Lower levels also- thoughts? <\/i>@MarjorieRosenbe<\/a><\/p>\n \u201c@MarjorieRosenbe<\/a> @naomishema<\/a> I think it\u2019s something we do with all levels at some point, mostly subconsciously\u201d<\/i> @theteacherjames<\/a><\/b><\/p>\n There was a brief conversation about the type of discourse used with larger class sizes:<\/p>\n \u201cHas anybody encountered anything on the connection to class size? The larger the class the more T talk becomes lecture like, IMO\u201d<\/i> @naomishema<\/a><\/p>\n Phtoto from @eannegrenoble #eltpics<\/p><\/div>\n \n<\/div>\n \u201cagree, difficult to have \u2018natural\u2019 conversations with 35 students!\u201d @GemL1<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u201c<\/i>@naomishema<\/a>\u00a0I don\u2019t have that experience, but I imagine it\u2019s very hard to resist when you\u2019re in that situation\u201d <\/i>@theteacherjames<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u201cIn previous course there was an external event &only 22 ss showed up to class (of 38). Really felt the difference\u201d <\/i>@naomishema<\/a><\/p>\n \u201cthink that Richard Smith spoke about TTT in large classes at IATEFL this year \u2013iatefl.britishcouncil.org\/2013\/sessions\/\u2026<\/a><\/i> #eltchat<\/a>\u201d @teacherphili<\/a><\/p>\n \u201c@naomishema<\/a>\u00a0no but there might be sth in the study i tweeted \u2013 class size abt 40<\/i>\u201d\u00a0@Marisa_C<\/a>\u00a0 – \u201chow teacher talk affects learning\u00a0bit.ly\/12qmozZ<\/a>\u201d<\/i><\/i><\/p>\n \u201cAren\u2019t new teachers told to record themselves to see how much they talk?\u201d<\/i>@MarjorieRosenbe<\/a><\/p>\n \n \u201cthey are but not all teacher talk is to chuck out so some evaluation tools useful\u201d<\/i>@Marisa_C<\/a><\/p>\n Marisa then gave a link to some very useful discourse analysis tools, this link contains the BIAS (Brown\u2019s Interaction Analysis System) 1975\u00a0 \u201c<\/i>This BIAS analysis is a good one to apply to recordings to analyse one\u2019s talk and CD in general\u201d<\/i> @Marisa_C<\/a>, Bowers\u2019 Categories of Verbal Behaviour in the Language Classroom \u2013 1980, FIAC (Flanders Interaction Analysis Categories) 1970, and Sinclair & Coulthard\u2019s List of \u201cActs\u201d (1975) bit.ly\/19uJgIg<\/a> #ELTchat<\/a><\/p>\n @muranava<\/a> <\/i>added to this list \u2013 \u201c<\/i>there\u2019s some int analysis projects e.g. The Dortmund Historical Corpus<\/i><\/p>\n of Classroom Englishjuergenkurtz.wordpress.com\/2013\/06\/05\/the\u2026<\/a>\u00a0#eltchat<\/a> \u201c<\/i><\/p>\n We then discussed some ways these tools could be used to discover your own classroom discourse profile<\/strong>:<\/p>\n \u201cmaybe recording various parts of classes & categorising them, see if it matches what u thought your CD was \/ should be\u201d @GemL1<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u201cwith a grid or checklist e.g. TQ TL etc \u2013 then tot up and see how you measure up!\u201d @Marisa_C<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u201cmany Ts using such checklists \u2013 ticking appropriate column ever 3-4 seconds or so often shocked at their CD profile\u201d @Marisa_C<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u201c<\/i>@Marisa_C<\/a>\u00a0I keep hearing about the effect of checklists used in this manner but I can\u2019t imagine teaching and ticking off items!\u201d @naomishema<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u201c@naomishema<\/a>\u00a0you couldn\u2019t \u2013 you would need to record your lesson and do afterwards \u2013 or have a colleague do it\u201d @Marisa_C<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u201cI think what u were talking about earlier-how natural lang use in the classroom is \u2013 u could create a diff checklist for that\u201d @Marisa_C<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u00a0\u201c\u2026. an even simpler way is to reduce to just three simple categories \u2013 Instruction \u2013 Direction \u2013 Elicitation\u201d #eltchat<\/a> @Marisa_C<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u201c<\/a>saw an interesting talk today about CA vs what ppl thought they did in interactions, big differences\u2026 was tutor to ss, ss-ss and tutor to tutor interaction analysed\u201d @LizziePinard<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u00a0\u201c@LizziePinard<\/a> your idea is another good way how much T to Ss etc\u201d @Marisa_C<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n Finally, we talked about\u00a0observations<\/strong>:<\/p>\n \u201chaving colleagues observe you is very enlightening<\/i>!\u201d @LizziePinard<\/a><\/p>\n \u201cbut observing yourself is a very good second option!\u201d<\/i> @theteacherjames<\/a><\/p>\n \u201csometimes the only good option available to many Ts!\u201d <\/i>@Marisa_C<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n \u201cAny time I\u2019ve been involved in observing\/being observed, I\u2019ve found the feedback very valuable \u2026\u2026<\/a> It helps me to see others and how they work. Others also can see what I fail to see on my own.\u201d<\/i> @nathanghall<\/a><\/p>\n \u201cI found the book by Gebhard and Oprandy, Language Teaching Awareness to be really good bit.ly\/12kZz5g<\/a>\u201d<\/i> @nathanghall<\/a><\/p>\n \u201cyes, just read this it\u2019s really useful, \u2018Classroom Observation Tasks\u2019 by Wajnryb is also useful for obs ideas\u201d @GemL1<\/a><\/i><\/p>\n <\/p>\n Pre chat reading:\u00a0http:\/\/canlloparot.wordpress.com\/teaching\/classroom-discourse\/<\/a><\/p>\n A good summary of analysis tools: bit.ly\/19uJgIg<\/a><\/p>\n The Dortmund Historical Corpus of Classroom English:https:\/\/juergenkurtz.wordpress.com\/2013\/06\/05\/the-dortmund-historical-corpus-of-classroom-english-dohcce\/<\/a><\/p>\n A study about how teacher talk affects learning bit.ly\/12qmozZ<\/a><\/p>\n Researching large classes: a questionnaire with impact:iatefl.britishcouncil.org\/2013\/sessions\/\u2026<\/a> #eltchat<\/a><\/p>\n A recent #ELTchat<\/a> about Teacher Questions, highly connected to our topic summary here: bit.ly\/16kVUbL<\/a><\/p>\n Gebhard and Oprandy, Language Teaching Awareness: bit.ly\/12kZz5g<\/a><\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n About the author<\/p>\n Gemma Lunn –\u00a0@GemL is an\u00a0EAP Tutor, RHUL | IELTS Examiner | MA Applied Linguistics | Trinity Diploma<\/p>\n Her blog:\u00a0\u00a0earlyr<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" This is a summary of the 9pm BST #eltchat summary from Wednesday 26thJune 2013. The topic was \u2018Classroom Discourse\u2019 and the pre- reading was the post Classroom Discourse\u00a0by Geoff Jordan. It was a bit of a slow, quiet chat with reasons ranging from long days and problems with TweetDeck to hot summer evenings! Definition… ![\"\"](\"http:\/\/farm6.staticflickr.com\/5520\/9127258614_1996404bf2.jpg\")
Classroom discourse and class size<\/b><\/h2>\n
![\"\"](\"http:\/\/farm6.staticflickr.com\/5285\/5346593937_6a9c5a8472.jpg\")
<\/h2>\n
Ways of analysing classroom discourse<\/b><\/h2>\n
Links<\/b><\/h2>\n
![\"profpic\"](\"https:\/\/earlyreflections1.files.wordpress.com\/2012\/10\/profpic.jpg?w=150&h=150\")
<\/p>\n
Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[12],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6876","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-summary"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6876","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6876"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6876\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6876"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6876"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6876"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}