{"id":7062,"date":"2015-02-24T08:43:50","date_gmt":"2015-02-24T08:43:50","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/eltchat.org\/wordpress\/?p=7062"},"modified":"2015-02-24T08:43:50","modified_gmt":"2015-02-24T08:43:50","slug":"how-can-we-make-in-class-feedback-interesting-varied-and-useful-eltchat-summary-17122014","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/2015\/02\/24\/how-can-we-make-in-class-feedback-interesting-varied-and-useful-eltchat-summary-17122014\/","title":{"rendered":"How can we make in-class feedback interesting varied and useful? #ELTChat Summary 17\/12\/2014"},"content":{"rendered":"<header class=\"entry-header\">\n<h1 class=\"entry-title\"><\/h1>\n<\/header>\n<div class=\"entry-content\">\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/learnerasteacher.wordpress.com\/eltchat-summaries\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">by Marjorie Rosenberg<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Several of us gathered together for the last eltchat of 2014 to discuss the topic of making in-class feedback both varied and useful.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The topic was kicked off by <strong>defining the topic a bit more exactly<\/strong> and asking some pertinent questions:<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Marisa_C: It\u2019s all about feedback after tasks \u2013 how to vary it and make it more useful.<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: then said in answer to HadaLitim: Making feedback interesting and great ideas? How do you do that?<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: We are looking for alternatives to teacher asking at the end and students shouting out answers.<\/li>\n<li>Shaunwilden: You mean there is an alternative!<\/li>\n<li>SueAnnan: Feedback of what exactly?<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: Content\/ideas first or language \u2013 what do you think?<\/li>\n<li><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>Some general ideas were then suggested:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>HadaLitim: First to be interesting it should relate directly to the lesson objective IMHO.<\/li>\n<li>MarjorieRosenbe: Not sure how to make feedback interesting \u2013 maybe writing out everything and letting students make necessary corrections.<\/li>\n<li>Ashowski: Once wrote a post about feedback on work at class level as a set of sentences they had to put in order to make whole text.<\/li>\n<li>SueAnnan: I save the stuff I hear while a task is going on, put it on the board and let students correct themselves.<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: I do exactly the same and try to make sure the students discuss it rather than write it.<\/li>\n<li>Priscilamateini: I think that feedback is very important to our students and some of them expect it.<\/li>\n<li>SueAnnan: Just giving correct answers is a waste of everyone\u2019s time. Get students to think about it first.<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: So tasks might have a public reporting stage of decisions, or output of some kind?<\/li>\n<li>Priscilamateini: I usually do it at the end of the class, and when it is a written activity I\u00a0 point out what would be better and how.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/eltchat.org\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Marjorie-Rosenberg-on-Twitter-When-I-give-back-corrected-X-xams-I-tell-them-to-compare-with-other-sts-and-find-someone-who-can-explain-correct-answer.-eltchat-.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter  wp-image-7063\" src=\"http:\/\/eltchat.org\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Marjorie-Rosenberg-on-Twitter-When-I-give-back-corrected-X-xams-I-tell-them-to-compare-with-other-sts-and-find-someone-who-can-explain-correct-answer.-eltchat--914x1024.png\" alt=\"Marjorie Rosenberg on Twitter   When I give back corrected X xams I tell them to compare with other sts and find someone who can explain correct answer.  eltchat\" width=\"643\" height=\"720\" \/><\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>The chat then began moving from more general ideas to <strong>specific situations:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>HadaLitim: Shall we take it skill by skill?<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim:We could start with feedback for speaking<\/li>\n<li>MarjorieRosenbe: With presentations students have to say what others did well and what they would like to try themselves.<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: Does the teacher keep a record of that?<\/li>\n<li>MarjorieRosenbe: They can. Usually I give language feedback on areas that need improvement and students on the positive aspects.<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: That sounds great and most useful. It could then be posted to a class forum.<\/li>\n<li>Hadalitim: Do you do that orally? Individually or to groups?<\/li>\n<li>Shaunwilden: They can do their own by recording themselves.<\/li>\n<li>SueAnnan: Could turn it into an auction too.<\/li>\n<li>MarjorieRosenbe: I do this with mistakes from exam. They get to bet on how to best correct them.<\/li>\n<li>SueAnnan: Just thinking demand high. If students have to determine answers it stays in the brain longer.<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: Agree \u2013 teacher providing the right answers not as effective<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: Teacher hands out a \u2018key\u2019 (may be only to weaker students?) They help others correct<\/li>\n<li><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>The use of technology<\/strong> also came up again in a question from Marisa:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Marisa_C: Screencasts for feedback anyone? Recordings?<\/li>\n<li>Ibizateacher: Recording themselves and sending sound files to me, it works, I can point out pronunciation mistakes.<\/li>\n<li>Ibizateacher: Some would not even record their own voice! Encouragement needed but when they finally do they love it!<\/li>\n<li><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>A variety of different techniques were also discussed.<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Marisa_C: In a TBL framework the Ss would get FB by reading how it should be done- they could then evaluate self or peers.<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: I read an interesting article by Alex Case today in ETP in which he assigns student monitors with checklists \u2013 have done this too- it works!<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: Have used it mainly for language but no reason why not other criteria in checklists e,g, length of turn, coherence, etc<\/li>\n<li><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>We then moved to a discussion of <strong>collaborative feedback:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Ibizateacher: I was told not to correct students when they speak ESL, they\u2019d eventually learn from input. But feedback is necessary to speed it up.<\/li>\n<li>MarjorieRosenbe: Sounds like cooperative learning where sts do peer correction.<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: A hugely popular activity with my classes \u2013 chain story writing \u2013 every two minutes texts change hands \u2013 read, check\/correct \/continue<\/li>\n<li>MarjorieRosenbe: When I give back corrected exams I tell them to compare with other students and find someone who can explain correct answer.<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: good idea \u2013 also allow them to assign marks might help using marker\u2019s criteria<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: I like to allow students to collaborate in groups with writing taking turns each reads and group gives feedback. At the end I collect them.<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: Some students are given prompts, others evaluation checklists \u2013 act as group monitors<\/li>\n<li>SueAnnan: Collaborating creates an info gap. Students can all have areas of strength which they share.<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: I also give feedback in the form of a running activity. Write the incorrect utterances on strips of card. 4 groups. 1 runner comes and gets a strip. The group corrects. If and when correct, they get the second strip. This works well at the end of unit 2\/2<\/li>\n<li><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Kate Lloyd joined in and commented on writing:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>KateLloyd05: Feedback on writing is easier to make interesting that speaking IMO<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: Writing \u2013 stick texts on wall and students go round and peer correct, or pass round and do same.<\/li>\n<li>Marisa-C: I like that gallery effect \u2013 maybe give them stickers?<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: Group writing exchange with other groups and write feedback for each other. Then rewrite before I check.<\/li>\n<li>KateLloyd05: Coloured pens are good. All students correct texts and discuss corrections<\/li>\n<li>KateLloyd05: group writing exchange with other groups and write feedback for each other. Then rewrite before I check.<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: Sounds effective and very student centered<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>We then talked about some of <strong>the difficulties we face:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Priscilamateini: There are some students that don\u2019t take the feedback as an opportunity to learn<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: That always happens. How can we turn them around?<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: that\u2019s the moment that I try to explain how FB\u00a0 important for them, but teens find it difficult to accept it.<\/li>\n<li>Ibizateacher: I don\u2019t have a magic formula, just explain that mistakes are good because they can learn from them and we all make them.<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: I totally agree and that the feedback is focussed so it\u2019s comprehensible<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: It depends where you are. When they come to the BC, they adapt to something they know too be different. They end up loving it.<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: So true! Especially when they\u2019re introduced to something so totally different.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>The question of<strong> which feedback is important<\/strong> came up:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>KateLloyd05: Think it\u2019s important that feedback isn\u2019t only on grammar, word form etc. but also on pronunciation and appropriacy.<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: Might be a good idea to do an Error Gravity activity once in a while \u2013 which language or other errors serious, which not a problem<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: Gravity activity .. That sounds interesting. Please do explain<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: How serious each one is \u2013 say on a scale of 0-5.<\/li>\n<li>SueAnnam: It depends on the task too. Not everything needs correcting.<\/li>\n<li>MsKuiper: Determine the most commonly made errors, then correct some with students on whiteboard at end of lesson. Then use that as a warm up next lesson.<\/li>\n<li>KateLloyd05: Interesting idea. So things like that missing articles are not a massive deal?<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: Probably not \u2013 but depends on level and other issues as well. As you said earlier not just grammar<\/li>\n<li>Priscilamateini: Sure and we can use real situations, as Twitter, or email (writing) or an interview or TV show (listening)<\/li>\n<li>Ibizateacher: Yes, that and telling them about some of my own mistakes when first learning the language, make them laugh a bit ;-<\/li>\n<li>MsKuiper If class is small, write memos of errors made by each student and give them out individually at end of lesson.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>There were various <strong>ideas to give students control of the feedback in different types of tasks:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>HadaLitim: In Listening class today and played the same recording three times so I had to vary both the type of feedback and the groups to keep students focused.<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: After each listening I rotated the students and reformed the groups. That I think made it more interesting.<\/li>\n<li>SueAnnam: I give the control of the CD player to students. They then decide how often it needs playing.<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: Excellent idea. I give them control of the board pen. They decide who goes up to the board.<\/li>\n<li>MsKuiper If class is small, write memos of errors made by each student and give them out individually at end of lesson.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Some thoughts on giving<strong> individual feedback:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Marisa_C: I sometimes use a different post-it for each student \u2013 can do lots with post-its \u2013 can mix them up, etc<\/li>\n<li>HadaLitim: If class is small, write memos of errors made by each student and give them out individually at end of lesson.<\/li>\n<li>Marisa_C: I personally like tasks that have some sort of built in element of peer feedback and evaluation at end \u2013 either thru self-checks or other.<\/li>\n<li>Ibizateacher: I make corrections general and not singling out one student. Then repetition of correct patterns, and reinforcement but not when they speak! I usually take notes and let them know privately. At this #eltchat I am discovering new ways!<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>And then there was the idea of <strong>feedback as a game:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Marisa_C: I recently read something but can\u2019t remember where or who wrote it about error auctions Anyone recall this? Students place bets on whether something is right or wrong<\/li>\n<li>KateLloyd05: You give them sentences, some containing errors and some not \u2013 they buy only correct ones, alternative they bet if it\u2019s right or wrong.<\/li>\n<li>MsKuiper : Students post an exit ticket on wall poster of classroom to leave the lesson, saying what feedback impacted them most.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>And some important information at the end:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Marisa_C: Next #ELTchat in the New Year on the 14th of January and it will be at 12 p.m. GMT \u2013 thanks everyone for giving us a great buzz in this last one!<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Links and ideas<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>HadaLitim: I saw this earlier and thought it made sense <a href=\"http:\/\/t.co\/aAy4cNCeTp\">http:\/\/t.co\/aAy4cNCeTp<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/t.co\/7amNnH2tzf\">http:\/\/t.co\/7amNnH2tzf<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Ashowski: Found the link about the post I was talking about #ELTChat via @Shaunwilden<a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/ELh06dX94d\">https:\/\/t.co\/ELh06dX94d<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Marisa_C: A video with one or twoalternatives \u2013 e.g. Students peer check and correct work in running dictation and more <a href=\"http:\/\/t.co\/kpB8VWcXb6\">http:\/\/t.co\/kpB8VWcXb6<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Shaunwilden: like what Russell does? <a href=\"http:\/\/t.co\/M2ZiN0XDqn\">http:\/\/t.co\/M2ZiN0XDqn<\/a><\/p>\n<p>RedNovaMexico : Three Ways to Engage Visual Learners \u2013 <a href=\"http:\/\/t.co\/v838rPwRHn\">http:\/\/t.co\/v838rPwRHn<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>by Marjorie Rosenberg &nbsp; Several of us gathered together for the last eltchat of 2014 to discuss the topic of making in-class feedback both varied and useful. &nbsp; The topic was kicked off by defining the topic a bit more exactly and asking some pertinent questions: &nbsp; Marisa_C: It\u2019s all about feedback after tasks \u2013&hellip; <br \/> <a class=\"read-more\" href=\"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/2015\/02\/24\/how-can-we-make-in-class-feedback-interesting-varied-and-useful-eltchat-summary-17122014\/\">Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[12],"tags":[30,55,92,112,131],"class_list":["post-7062","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-summary","tag-correction","tag-feedback","tag-oral-correction","tag-speaking","tag-writing"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7062","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=7062"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7062\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=7062"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=7062"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/eltchat.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=7062"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}